#Render Garden/Farm/Jungl
31 messages in this thread
Hi Gary!
Matt told me that you had asked about our newly announced product the Render
Garden/Farm/Jungle!
He copied the messages to a floppy from the Computer we had been using at the
show but I've still to unpack/find it! <G>
Please forgive the lateness of this response.
As were just going in to production I have to meet with everyone concerned so
we can put together more information regarding this outstanding
product/solution.
Here's what we've got so Far:
For those who wish to achieve the productivity improvements provided by
3DS' ability to distribute rendering activity across a network, without
having to purchase numerous PC, wrestle with setting up a network, resolve
network/operating system compatability problems, figure out what to do with the
extra PC's, or coordinate their shared use — Render Garden/Farm/Jungle
provides the solution in uniquely engineered box inclusive of all the hardware
and software necessary to plug and play. IT REALLY WORKS and the productivity
gains are REAL.
AM Labs is an animation shop company that is part of a larger company
(DC Systems, Inc.) that had the hardware/software engineering expertise to
develop this product for us. It was initially built to meet our need for a
faster and cheaper rendering capability without having deal with the problems
listed above. We use it and it did solve our problems. We are now providing it
to others. Still working out pricing details however we anticipate entry level
price will be approximately $20,000 (5 486 66mhz system with 2.5 GB HD). For
more information call and details about the product call.
Mr. Matt Armstrong
Vice President, AM Labs
(214) 960-7915
Gary be sure to tell Matt I told you to call!
We're still working out some of the Details but I can tell you we did Matrox's
4+ hour Rendering in under 39Minuets!
This is with Parallel Prosessing CPU's and full access!
Murph'
Thanks for the info, but I've got a question for ya. Can you swap out those
486's for 5 Pentium 90's?
– G
Yup! <G>
Gary…Please Give Matt Armstrong at AM Labs a call.
He's the General Manager and one of the Developers of this product.
Matt would like to talk to you regarding this project and working together with
the Yost Group to make 3D Studio even more of a Giant Killer!
You could reach him at AM Labs Phone (214) 960-7915 in Addison TX.
It'll be worth the call….beleive me! <BG>
Murph'
Murph, I'm just too busy to at the moment. On top of that, I'm leaving
tomorrow morning for 5 days camping in the desert in NM. (if I don't clear my
head out a bit, it's going to explode)
Can you have him send me some email highlighting some of the issues he'd like
to discuss with me?
– G
Gary,
I've passed this message on to Matt.
Hope you two will be able to get together soon as this Hardware/Software
combination teamed with 3D Studio is going to really turn some heads.<BG>
Have a good couple of days off and try not to think about programing for at
least 15 min. a day. <BG>
Murph'
Hi Jim,
I have another question for you:
If I can buy 5 Pentium 90's for nearly $3000.00 a piece including 430 HD, SVGA
monitors, disk drives, etc., why would I want to buy a black box for $5000.00
more filled with 486-66's and nothing else?
I'm not trying to come across as an ass or anything, but I think that at
$20,000 and with 486's it isn't a good buy at all. Even if I don't have to deal
with the "network" since it really isn't that bad.
Let me know what you think.
Alex K.
Alex….Alex….Alex…
I'm afraid my freind that you don't understand the concept of the Render
Garden/Farm/Jungle at all.<g>
That's like saying I got one 360 Windsor in my 72 Merc Broughm Stock Car, Now
if I go out and buy 4 more 360 Windsor's…..
Get it???
I'll Post the description again:
For those who wish to achieve the productivity improvements provided by
3DS' ability to distribute rendering activity across a network, without
having to purchase numerous PC, wrestle with setting up a network, resolve
network/operating system compatability problems, figure out what to do with the
extra PC's, or coordinate their shared use — Render Garden/Farm/Jungle
provides the solution in uniquely engineered box inclusive of all the hardware
and software necessary to plug and play. IT REALLY WORKS and the productivity
gains are REAL.
AM Labs is an animation shop company that is part of a larger company
(DC Systems, Inc.) that had the hardware/software engineering expertise to
develop this product for us. It was initially built to meet our need for a
faster and cheaper rendering capability without having deal with the problems
listed above. We use it and it did solve our problems. We are now providing it
to others. Still working out pricing details however we anticipate entry level
price will be approximately $20,000 (5 486 66mhz system with 2.5 GB HD). For
more information call and details about the product call.
Mr. Matt Armstrong
Vice President, AM Labs
(214) 960-7915
Your going to have to talk to Matt about this.
All I can say right now is that the difference between going to gateway and
buying 5 pc's networking them with Lantastic or Novell and trying to get the
kind of functionality and speed the Render Garden gives you is about the same
as chaining 5 VW Beatles together to get more performance instead of purchasing
a Lambroghini for what you'd pay for one Ford Escort. <BG>
All I can Say is if anyone is really serious about animation work and needs to
compete with the big boys….this is his or her answer!
I've spent 5 days watching this machine do it's magic and at the risk of
sounding redundent I'd like to repeat what Dick Couron said.."IT REALLY WORKS
and the productivity gains are REAL!
Murph'
I still don't get it (sorry). I hope my math is right here, but if one
486/66 renders a scene in 30 hours, then the render garden will render it in 6,
correct? If I got 5 P90's for the same price as the Render garden, and since
P90's are 3 times as fast as 486/66's at rendering, wouldn't the same scene
take only 2 hours on the P90 network?
If I had a job that would take the Render garden 3 days to render, I
would much rather have the P90's to throw the job at and get it done in a
single day. Like I've mentioned before, with a $20k investment, I don't want to
give up 2/3rds the rendering power just to avoid setting up and networking 5
machines. If the Render garden (with 5 486's) can render just as fast as the 5
pentium 90's (I don't see how it could), then it would be an attractive
solution. I would go for speed over ease of setup any day, unless I had money
to burn, but not many of us do. I hope I'm making sense, but if I'm missing
something here, please let me know.
David
Just another thought…
I could get 5 P90's, 32 megs each, network hardware and software, AND
hire someone to come in and set it all up for me, and probably still come in
under $20k. If the render garden people (sorry, I forget the company name) were
to pack 5 P90's into a single box, ready to render for $20k, then you're
talking! That would make more sense.
David
David,
The original posting had a 486DX2 66 rendering it in 30 hours, which I thought
was comical. I mean if they have to find a clock doubled 486/33 to render
comparisons with why not just get a 286 or something. Then you could say that
the new machine renders a hundred times faster.
The whole posting was extremely skewed and the general forumites quickly
realized the fact. No sense in arguing the fact.
They need to compare the machine against 5 normal 486 66's and post a speed and
price point comparison. The 20k probably gives them a comfortable 10 -12k
profit margin.
Paul
Paul:
>> …486DX2 66…if they have to find a clock doubled 486/33… compare the
>> machine against 5 normal 486 66's…
PMJI, but all 486/66s are doubled 33's. There is no such beast as a 'normal'
486/66. The highest pure 486 clock speed is the 485/50. So they are 'normal'.
;^)
Greg Pyros
Greg,
You know I'm totally trashed at the moment and it's been several years since
our 486/66 days, I don't have any around here anymore. But …….
I didn't know that….. I never have cared for clock doubled chips, I was
under the impression that since there are two 50 MHZ 486's true 50's and
clock doubled 25's, (definately not the same in name or speed) that there
was also 2 different 66's.
If there aren't then, the claim that 5 machines of
the exact same composition renders 60 times faster is totally unbelievable.
i.e. – Didn't they say that a single standalone machine took 30+ hours and
their composite machine took around 30 minutes?
It would seem that 1 machine = 30 hours
so 5 machines would equal 6 hours or 5 times faster.
I'm exhausted but I think the 60x figure is right.
30 hours = 60 half hours
1 half hour rendering time is 60 times faster.
Which is virtually impossible. Something on the original machine has to be
crippled.
Otherwise you would have to believe that their method of combining
motherboards results in a 12x speedup in the processing power of each board.
1 machine = 30 hours
5 machines = 6 hours
their 5 machines = 30 minutes
30 minutes is 1/12 of 6 hours.
IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did I calculate something wrong or are they just totally out of their mind.
Perhaps the first machine had 2 megs of ram or something.
:-((((((((((Paul)
>>Didn't they say that a single standalone machine took 30+ hours and
their composite machine took around 30 minutes?
Nope. I used the 30 hour figure for a hypothetical comparison between a
486/66, the 5 processor Render Garden, and 5 networked Pentium 90's. The figure
they quoted in there original post was something like a 4 hour rendering taking
39 minutes, not a 30 hour rendering. This is a pretty respectable speed up, but
it isn't worth $20k, IMO. (not when the same money will get me hardware to
render the same scene in 15 minutes <g>)
David
Oh well, just another one of my mistakes. 🙂
Everybody just ignore my posts, I'm totally out of mind …………
Just keep this is mind, if I keep repeating it on the forum, after a while
it'll be the truth.
"There is no absurdity so palpable but that it may be firmly planted in the
human head if you only begin to inculcate it before the age of five."
Schopenhauer
Dave:
This is getting pretty humorous. The way I read the information that was (1)
486/66 would have rendered the entire job in 4 hours (240 mins) vs the Render
Garden (5) processor machine which took 39 mins. If you could have used (5)
networked 486's to begin with the job would have taken 240/5 = 48 minutes. This
would be a savings of ONLY 9 MINUTES which is a not so remarkable 23% faster.
If you just go with 5 P60's networked you'll be leaving the Render Garden in
the dust, yes? P90's would smoke its shorts off. Seeing as these numbers seem
so non-incredible I have to assume I've misunderstood the whole deal.
Your whale image is back on my screen in full color. My Viper card seemed to
take a coincidental vacation with me last week and I've just now gotten my
Windows driver set for 65K colors in 1024 x 768. It was viewing your image
which alerted me to the problem and viewing your image which confirmed my fix
tonight, thanks.
Bob
I think I'll wait for an official description/price/rendering comparison before
I put any more thought into it, because unless there's some big surprise to
come, it doesn't make much sense (unless they cut the price in half). We'll
see.
You mentioned the Whale.jpg image (didn't you)? I trust you have the
new one, Humpbk.tga… it's much better :-).
David
David:
I'm gonna leave the 'garden' for a while, too. I'll check out your new
humpbk.tga, thanks again.
Bob
David,
<<Humpbk.tga>> Where is this image located? My grandaughter is a whale fan!
Russ
Insight Development
David!
This whole thread is getting really funny….
Have you ever seen a rumor get started in an office with 30 or more people???
It's Hilarious!
Were so far from the original facts that I wouldn't be surprised if someone
told me we said we could plow that back forty and shuck all that corn at the
same time….Geeezzz
Well for all of us just waiting on some "real" information about the Render
Garden/Farm/Jungle I understand that Matt Armstrong will be posting something
soon.
Keep Animate N' <BG>
Murph'
I think the whole mess is based on the price of the "entry level" 486
setup. Maybe the price, especially if it's not set yet, probably shouldn't have
been mentioned yet. The simple fact is (IMHO, of course) that unless the price
of the Render garden, etc, is comparable to the same processing power in a
normal network, then I don't think people will go for it. When it comes to
rendering, it's more bang for the buck that counts in the long run. Even a 5
P90 render box will have to cost @ $20k to make it a cost effective solution.
I hope Matt is able to read these threads and can give a good reason to
spend $ on his products, because if he doesn't, the products won't be around
long (obviously), but I do think a high powered plug and play render box is a
great idea. I really shouldn't worry about it myself, as I'm nowhere near being
able to afford (or need) that kind of rendering setup… in any form. (I'm
toiling over a decision right now on whether or not to buy a P90 myself…
thats a BIG purchase for me)
David
You are misinformed.
BILL
Oh well back to my hole ……………..
See what happens when I get totally swamped, the world turns upside down. 🙂
Paul
I know what you mean.
BILL
Paul:
You'll just have to stop drinking that Jolt and getting some sleep! <g> You
sound overworked, big guy!
Greg Pyros
Paul,
Part of the mystery about this product stems from the fact that it is very good
technology.
A Hardware Software Combination that can take advantage of the older Hardware
now available for much less on the market.
Dick probably shouldn't have posted any price to me whatsoever as I'm not sure
they even have that nailed down yet.
The point is….they will be providing a true solution to the problems
associated with network rendering along with some propriatory software and
hardware connections that neither I nor anyone else is prepared to talk about
as yet.
If you want more information regarding this product or would like to talk to
the actual people that are developing this technology instead of guessing about
it I would kindly offer Mr. Armstrongs Phone Number.
Matt Armstrong
AM Labs
Addison TX.
(214) 960-7915
I think we all need to give these guys some time to finish bringing this
equipment to market before we all start second guessing what it's actually
about.
Better Yet Get Matt to tell Ya!…..Simple No? <BG>
He might actually be willing to post more details if we made it a point to
express some of the confusion directly to him via telephone.
It's actually scary the way some of the forum regulars have "reacted" to this
simple posting…sort of reminds me when the PAR first came out <BG>.
The bonus with this technology is you get to choose which level of
Price/Performance you want to start and can upgrade along with the jumps in
technology.
I know I'm not really giving any details here…trust me…I got em'…I just
can't say anything at this point in time.
Paul….Please Call Matt.
Murph'
David the 486/dx266mhz was a test setup meant to be an entry level.
Yes you can get it with Pentium 90MHz set ups.
However the sum is greater than the total of the parts.
You really should call Matt Armstrong about this as I can not comment on parts
of the technology that they are not ready to talk about until I've been given
permission to do so.
Matt Armstrong may be reached at:
AM Labs
Addison TX.
(214) 960-7915.
Please tell him I've referred you to him.
BTW I love your work! <G>
Murph'
Sorry, I've only loosely been following this – but I don't get it either. Isn't
this product essentially several MB's with RAM networked together & residing in
one enclosure with master &/or local mass storage ? If so, then I can see that
approach more CONVIENIENT, but seperated networked workstations as being more
FLEXIBLE. Therefore, the question becomes: How much LESS MONEY is this approach
to offset the loss of flexibility ? As I'm understanding it, this approach is
MORE MONEY to produce rendered frames than is possible with the "conventional"
approach. So…..as I said, what am I missing here – what's the point ?
BILL
M. G. Batchelor,
>>> Isn't this product essentially several MB's with RAM networked together &
residing in one enclosure with master &/or local mass storage ?<<<
No.
Please Call Matt Armstrong at:
(214) 960-7915
Things should make more sense then.
Murph'
Thanks for the number, I'll give him a call. But, I don't understand why
there's so much "secrecy" surrounding this product. I mean, if one advertises a
product via any form of media including here, I think one should be able to
publicly make it clear what it is they're selling – including answering
questions. If a number of people have missed the point, then I tend to think
the point wasn't made well in the first place. Of course, that's just my
opinion.
BILL