CompuServe Thread

GUANAJUATO, MEXICO

8 messages in this thread
#146461From: CHRIS TREDWELLSep 18, 1994 10:43 PM
Steve, The Valenciana is still working. At the moment, one of the Coop geologists is working full-time there to block out new reserves, but they are hoisting out about 100 mine trolleys of ore daily on a one shift per day basis, 6 days a week. A quick historical note: after labour disputes in the early 40's, the (american) Guanajuato Mines and Reduction Co abandoned various mines and the Mexican Gov't sponsored their formation into what I believe was the first Cooperative in Mexico. Management was entrusted to Ing. Terrazas, who turned a shoe-string operation into a successful mining business. When he retired, tha Cooperative management went into a decline, technically and financially, leading to petitions for bankruptcy from creditors 2 years ago. Luckily, closure was politically unthinkable and pressure from above led to radical changes in the management team. Excellent reserves were identified and work concentrated on the Rayas mine, where an extremely rich shoot (Clavo de Rayas) was worked on a 3 shift basis. This bonanza stabilized cash-flow and the Coop is now in good health with a promising future. New deposits have been discovered NE of the Valenciana, which should lead to extending the mine into a new area, incidentally reopening the Guadalupe shaft (do you remember the abandoned mine on the haul road to La Luz with flying buttresses shaped liked elephants' trunks?). However, the Valenciana still looks the same: rather run-down, with tumble-down buildings. The mining school is on a real downer at the moment and I don't think it will make it. In 93-94 academic year there were 2 mine geology students in their final year, with none in the lower levels. Whilst mine engineers used to be assured good jobs on graduating, nowadays they have a hard time finding jobs. The mineral collection, with a lot of specimens from the end of the 1800's is in a similar state and I am sure the better specimens are being "removed". It's all very sad. There is no student exchange scheme with other mine schools, unlike the rest of Guanajuato University, which is flourishing. The "momias" (mummies from the local cemetery) is as big a tourist attraction as ever and there is a big turnover in the land office aspect. However, this is one type of mineralization that turns me off! You can now go down the original entrance to the Valenciana mine, known as the "Boca Mina", dating from about 1760, just behind the Valenciana church. It is gradually being dug out by the Coop and the entrance fee includes a hard hat. For the moment, it goes down about 150 feet and covers a distance of 300 feet. You can't pick up specimens on the Valenciana haul road any longer, although it's still a dirt track. I go down the local mines quite frequently and you can't even pick up specimens down there, the miners are so efficient at collecting. A miner gets about us$40-50 per week and a half decent acanthite will get him the same. As long as tonnages are maintained, the Coop does not forbid miners to bring out crystals. Otherwise, Guanajuato is still my dream town and I am hoping to buy a plot/house where I can watch the sun go down over what must be one of the most beautiful places in Mexico. … Chris
#146558From: Guy HammerSep 19, 1994 8:53 PM
Hi, Chris > …Valenciana mine, known as the "Boca Mina",… Mouth Mine? Must be named after the shape of the opening? Regards, Guy
#146709From: CHRIS TREDWELLSep 21, 1994 9:46 AM
Guy >…Valenciana mine, known as the "Boca Mina",… My first reply was very cryptic as I had local phone line problems and tried to complete the message before being disconnected. From 1540 to about 1700, all silver mines in the Guanajuato district started as adits into vein outcrops. As the Veta Madre slopes down at 42 degrees, these adits usually turned into dry masonry staircases. It was customary to name these adits "Boca de la Mina" (mouth of the mine), shortened to "Boca Mina". The Valenciana Boca Mina is of great historical importance as it through it came the ore that financed the Spanish Empire's last great fling, making the owner into the Count of Valenciana and also into the (rumored) richest man in the world in the last half of the 1700's. The ore was brought out by "tenateros" (indian porters), who used a walking -stick about 10" long to help them climb the 1,000 odd feet of stairs to the surface; there were about 5,000 underground workers during this period, including the personal bearers of supervisors, who went everywhere piggyback. As befitted the importance of the Boca Mina, it was capped by an elegant stone building in carved limestone (Cantera). In the late 1700's the Boca Mina was replaced by a series of shafts using mule-power whims (Malacates de Sangre) and the Boca Mina was abandoned, becoming a tumbledown rubbish dump, until rescue started in 1992. …Chris
#146771From: Guy HammerSep 21, 1994 9:04 PM
Chris- Thanks for the interesting insight on Boca de la Mina. > …including the personal bearers of supervisors, who went everywhere > piggyback. Hmmm. The mina must have had tall ceilings. (Or short bearers. <g>) Of course if one could get around with a 10' walking stick, (Is this where the ten foot pole, as in 'I wouldn't touch that with a…' came from?) I guess riding piggyback wouldn't be much of a problem. Hmmm, again. Re-reading your message: > …who used a walking -stick about 10" long… I can't see any use in a 10" walking stick. You must have meant 10'. Let me know if I'm off base, and why. The thing that really got me interested in this mine is that the name was so similar to my absolute favorite place on earth, Boca Cave, (Boca de la Cava? what _is_ the Spanish word for cave?) in the Mt Jefferson Wilderness in Oregon. I uploaded a .gif of a photo I took of Mt Jefferson framed by the mouth of the cave about 2 years ago. It's sitting over in the Landmarks section of the Graphics Corner (go corner) forum (MTJEFF.GIF) if you are interested. Thanks, Guy
#147043From: CHRIS TREDWELLSep 24, 1994 12:04 AM
No humming, Guy,… the 10 INCH walking sticks were just that; this is how it goes: Baron Alexander von Humboldt, probalby the most objective and technically qualified commentator on mining during his time (late 1700's to early 1800's) visited the Valenciana in August 1803. His comments are recorded in his "Political Essay on the Kingdom of New Spain". On the Valenciana: The tenateros (porters) work 6 hours, carrying loads of 225 to 350 pounds (Whatever type of pound it was, this explains their average lifespan of 29 years). It is common to see files 50 to 60 of them, aged from 10 to 12 years upwards, climbing thousands of stairs at 45 degrees, bending their bodies forwards and walking in "esses". This is because experience has taught that they can breathe more easily if they cut the air currents at an angle. Also, the cleaner and cooler air would have been the lowest. The Valenciana drilled 600 blast holes per day in 1803. Fireset had been replaced by blasting powder, but it was still smokey stuff and there were 16 forges underground adding to the smog, without mentioning that lighting was by (tar) flares. Good air was at a premium… The tunnels were high: 3.3 meters was the norm, even for exploration drifts (no diamond drilling) with a width of 3 meters. This practice was criticised by Von Humboldt as costly, but the owner justified it as essential for ventilation. I have been in some of the workings dating from this period, at 265 meters down and can canfirm the size. Also the stairs are (for my 51 years) almost as tiring as what the Cooperative passes off as rope ladders. (The latter were excused as being in an area where the accountants never venture) Hmm…We have got ourselves a long way from Boca Cave in Oregon… "Cava" is Spanish for an excavation, quarry or even a wine cellar (did you get to the bottom to check this?) I'll try downloading you Gif, Mex.telefone system permitting. I have taken lots of photos of the mine workings, but have not yet achieved a scannable level – and my scanner is b/w; one day I shall upload a shot of an 1700's tunnel, to show you what inspires all this verbage. Cheers Chris
#147201From: Guy HammerSep 25, 1994 5:48 PM
Hi, Chris > …the 10 INCH walking sticks were just that; this is how it goes: > …climbing thousands of stairs at 45 degrees, bending their bodies forwards > and walking in "esses". This is because experience has taught that they can > breathe more easily if they cut the air currents at an angle. Also, the > cleaner and cooler air would have been the lowest. I stand corrected – that makes my back hurt just reading about it! While composing my previous reply I wondered briefly if the steepness of the stairs might be a factor. I didn't think about the (lack of) air quality, though it makes perfect sense after your kind explanation. > …or even a wine cellar (did you get to the bottom to check this?) Funny you should mention that. At the _top_ of Boca Cave (the floor slopes up from the mouth) there is a spring that runs ice-cold year around, even during the recent drought years. We used to scoop out basins in the cinder floor of the cave under the spring. These would fill with water just the right temperature to chill our beer, wine or perishable food. > one day I shall upload a shot of an 1700's tunel, to show you what inspires > all this verbage. I'll be looking forward to that. Thanks, Guy
#146792From: Stephen RylandSep 21, 1994 10:34 PM
Chris- How is the expat situation in Guanajuato. I have considered that area but am now leaning toward Michoacan in the hills. I do most work in Jalisco/Colima area which is not too far from either. I know there are a bunch of Americans in SM Allende;does that drive up the prices in the area? Glad to hear about the coop; we have supplied one up in Parral, but things not so great up there, at least as of a few years ago. With any luck maybe we'll both end up momias some day. Steve
#147035From: CHRIS TREDWELLSep 23, 1994 10:22 PM
Steve.. …Expat situation My expats (brits) fled the area around 1890, having failed dismally to revive the mining business with live steam on a basis of bloated stock offerings on the Brit. Stock Exchange. They left some lovely, tall chimneys (very GIF.able) next to most of the local historic shafts, but not much else. 'Fraid I'm an odd man out here…blame my super Mexican wife. Your (US) expats are more tenacious and, as you say, have built up quite a colony in San Miguel Allende. Alas, no more mines in that area and roads are not all that good; however it does possess the only office in central Mexico that handles foreigner's residence permits. This immediately puts the town in the 6 inch Proustite class, for expats. I don't have personal experience of Michoacan, Jalisco or Colima, but if you are interested in live volcanos, Colima is the place to be. It's also very quiet and getting in or out is tough, owing to a the poor road system. Michoacan has an overdose of political hotheads, who succeed in making life difficult for everybody. I imagine that expats (especially US) would be cosidered fair game, with no closed season! Guanajuato has a changing population of US expats, due to the university's exchange schemes and is still "original", including the water supply and drains. (SM Allende is too "twee" for my tastes) House prices reflect local salaries, rather than expats', so you can get a good buy, if you do not go after something really ambitious. You are 40 mins by tollway from Leon (and yours truly), with Price Club and other similar essentials, including tollways to Guadalajara (and Colima), Aguascalientes (new, blue topaz discovery…no further details till I get my pieces), Zacatecas and (if you are a masochist) Mexico City. Try Guanajuato, it's difficult to beat. Sure I'll see you here soon. …Chris