#Reflection Mapping
13 messages in this thread
>On Refraction Mapping front: I just rendered couple of Gems
>(spent 1 hour on that exercise) and uploaded results:
>you may want to check it out – REFRGEMS.JPG in IPAS Usage folder.
They are truly beautiful, Aleksey, and one of the things I have always wanted
to do with 3DS. Will you forgive me a few questions?
1) What is the exact way to go about creating such gems? Did you just create a
regular solid (I have the full function HEDRA IPAS that does that), make it
transparent and colored, and then apply your mapping IPAS? Or are there some
steps I'm missing? Your message said it took you an hour to do the gems, and
they are certainly worth the time, but I couldn't see what would take that
long. Is positioning the object critical to the results?
2) How difficult is it to apply your mapping?
3) (This one really sounds stupid, but here it goes): What, exactly, *does*
reflection mapping really do? I mean, I can see that I probably want it if
nothing more than just to make gems like you did, but how does it differ from
applying a refmap in the material editor? What other kinds of applications
would I be likely to use it for?
4) How much and when available?
Thanks for your patience.
Hi Mike,
I jumped in here because I have worked with the product for several months. I'm
sure Alex will add some comments of his own.
Lee
1)Typical Workflow:
a. Create Geometry
b. Render background (all objects which are NOT refractive). You use this
image
as your background AND the refractive material called from within the
interface. You will take this background and create a material in the material
editor and save it to use from within the Mapref interfave (PXP).
c. If your object is to be made of (colored) transparent material or if your
object will have specular highlights wou will need to
create an appropriate material which is nearly 100%
transparant and apply this directly to the (refractive)
mesh.
d. Call up the Mapref (PXP) dialog box and define your scene. Optical
Density, Refraction Type, Raytrace Depth, Material (the
background), Environment (floor, walls, etc….).
After picking OK, the AXP is automatically applied to
the mesh as well as the special mapping coords.
e. Finally render the scene.
2) Mapping is applied by the routine.
3) It actually calculates how the background is reflected by the faces based on
how many times rays are allowed to bounce around within the object.
4) Available NOW! Call Digimation.
Ah, thanks for jumping in and enlightening me. So, this is really ray-tracing
of a sort, huh? That kind of disappoints me, because of the speed factor. Can
I assume that for the example Alex posted it would take several magnitudes of
order longer rendering times than I'm used to? I would have guessed around 8
minutes or so on my Pentiums, but for a raytraced image an hour or hours would
probably be closer?
This is the exciting part, they have broken the sound barrier as far as render
time goes. Average rendering time is under 1 min. on a P100!
>So, this is really ray-tracing of a sort, huh? That kind of disappoints me,
because of the speed >factor. Can I assume that for the example Alex posted it
would take several magnitudes of order >longer rendering times than I'm used
to? I would have guessed around 8 minutes or so on my >Pentiums, but for a
raytraced image an hour or hours would probably be closer?
Hi, again!
Refraction Mapping is some sort of raytracing (just very smart and SPEEDY one).
It cheats, where it can.
One of the main achivements was determination of
what is insignificant and throwing it away, another achivement was to make
extremely speedy antialias – antijuggy techique, which is size adaptive.
Actually, RefrMap is packed with unique and very efficient algorithms:
Check the size of RefrMap.axp (without any interface it is 270K) versus
let's say blobs.axp (which has some interface code embedded: 108K).
And take into account that Russian programmers can be accused in anything,
BUT writing bloated or slow code!
Refraction Mapping is speedy, for objects of normal complexity and relative
size
you would expect around a minute (!!!) on Pentium/90.
Regards,
Alex, Video International
>And take into account that Russian programmers can be accused in anything,
BUT writing bloated or slow code!<
That is what I heard. They don't release programs that are 20-30MB like some of
this crap from MS and Lotus. The excuse over here is to get more RAM. At least
3DS gives you a good reason to get more RAM. Americans are pigs for bloated
code. [BG]
Hi, Mike!
>>On Refraction Mapping front: I just rendered couple of Gems
>> REFRGEMS.JPG in IPAS Usage folder.
>They are truly beautiful, Aleksey.
Thanks.
>1) What is the exact way to go about creating such gems? Your message said
it took you an >hour to do the gems, and they are certainly worth the time. Is
positioning the object critical to the >results?
0. Why did I spend an hour?
I stupidly invited my wife to judge intermediate results <g>.
(she still doesn't like yellow one)
Exact steps are:
1. Create Meshes (with Hedra, Hedra2, Booleans, Lofter, whatever). I spent half
an hour,
just playing with Hedra2 (I just love this Ipas). Add some lights and assign
some
normal 3DS mapping and transparent REFLECTIVE material to them (if you want
reflection).
I used around 30% biglake.gif.
2. Create gradient. You can use Gus Grubba's gradient designer for that, but I
just
rendered empty scene with gradient background from white to blue.
3. Create couple of REFRACTIVE materials (nontransparent, selfillum) with this
gradient as a texture.
I created 4 out of the same gradient, just changing RGB Tint.
4. Call Refraction Mapping PXP module (MapRef) and set RefrMap parameters.
In my case, I needed 4 groups with one mesh in each one, because every stone
had different REFRACTIVE material.
Other setting I used:
Hide Prototype: Off (I wanted reflection).
Optical density: from 2.0 to 2.4 (almost perfect diamonds).
Raytraced Depth: 2 (for green one 3).
Horizon: Middle (I wanted more different colors in the stone, because "Near"
would cause only
small range to be picked up).
4a. I had simple box called Wall behind the stones (on the distance of 2 sizes
of the green one).
And I set "Wall Object" setting to Wall, and tell MapRef to Hide it.
5. I rendered 640×480 scene. RefrMap took 18 seconds for Green one, and from 5
to 12
seconds for others (Pentium/90). And that would be for every frame. But the
smaller
relative area occupied by stones, the shorter this time would be (it's
proportional to area).
Done.
>2) How difficult is it to apply your mapping?
I haven't seen anything EASIER <g>, with exception of Camera Mapping <bg>.
You can try for yourself. There is file REFRLOOK.ZIP in IPAS Usage section.
It has OK button disabled, and there is no "Scene Material" button, which is
a great convenience, because it allows you to pick Refractive Material from the
list of those in the scene. otherwise it is identical to final product.
>3) What, exactly, *does* reflection mapping really do? What other kinds of
applications would I be likely to use it for?
a) First of all, GEMS is just UNINTENDED use of RefMap. I called it Hidden
Treasures,
because it was not in our minds.
b) Refraction Mapping gives you BEST of both words: raytraced refraction
brought to
scanline editor and all that multiplyed by SPEED. In short, it takes an object,
raytraces
camera rays, till they hit background (and surrounding objects) and figures out
how object mapping coordinates should be changed in order to produce the same
picture, when prerendered background is applied as a texture.
Again, you render everything in the scene without your let's say diamond. And
then use this
image as a texture for diamond. If you wouldn't change mapping coordinates on
the
diamond, you would get something wrong. Refraction Mapping recalculates these
coordinates in such a way, that when you apply this image to your diamond,
background looks
distorted in the proper way.
If that in not exactly clear, just download REFDEMO.ZIP – working demo and try
to
replace background bitmap and bitmap used in LENS REFRACT material to some
(the same) flick (say walking bird). And see what you'll get.
c) Refraction Mapping should be used efor every not VERY complicated scene
suitable
for raytracer, esspecially in animations. Magnifying glasses, just glasses,
monocles,
bottles, gems, water drops (you can use blobs instead of meshes), caricatures,
watches, cockpits(?) these glassy semispheres around pilots, etc…
>4) How much and when available?
250. Digimation sells it temporarily for 195. Since SIGGRAPH.
>5)
You forgot to ask about the future…
Regards,
Alex, Video International
>> You forgot to ask about the future… <<
You'd need to render a crystal ball w/ refmap to do that! <g>
– ej
>> You'd need to render a crystal ball w/ refmap to do that! <g>
Work in progress!!!
Aleksey, I just wanted you to know that I showed Refraction Mapping to the San
Diego User's Group last night and it was very well received.
Combining 3DS cubic reflection maps with your wonderfully thought out
refraction mapping techniques provided a truly convincing, efficient solution
without the need to raytrace. Something I've wanted to be able do in a
scan-line renderer for a long time.
Congratulations to you and Oleg! it is much deserved, and keep the great stuff
coming! I've got this feeling MAX will be SO much more fun with you guys
around.
Sincerely,
-Alan
>>Congratulations to you and Oleg! it is much deserved, and keep the great
stuff coming! I've got >>this feeling MAX will be SO much more fun with you
guys around.
Thanks, Alan!
Hope, you will get many happy minutes(!) with our Refraction Mapping.
But we don't stay still:
Sticky Mapping is around the corner! Be ready!
Alex, Video International
Thanks, Aleksey, for the replies. I'll call Digimation today (hey, I always
wanted to buy something made by you, since your thoughtful help on WB).
>>hey, I always wanted to buy something made by you, since your thoughtful help
on WB
Thanks,
but I always wanted you to buy something from us, based solely on our
qualities…