CompuServe Thread

#Nurbs in 3ds

9 messages in this thread
#188163From: Marion K. MarksAug 30, 1995 4:12 PM
I haven't been keeping up with the boards lately, but the "one guy even said they were planning legal action…" sounds like something someone might say who misremembered something I posted some time ago. I NEVER said we were planning legal action. What I said was that I was concerned that Autodesk had opened themselves up to possible legal action from OTHERS. The patch modeler amounted to "bait-and-switch," which IS legally actionable. I proposed a SOLUTION which many here agreed was quite workable, but Autodesk didn't go for it. My solution was that rather than adding insult to injury by trying to "placate" us by giving us a "substitute goody" that (#1) wasn't worth anywhere NEAR what the Patch Modeler would've been (either in absolute value or in terms of productivity enhancement for a substantial majority of the users here), and (#2) MOST OF US ALREADY HAD!! (it was the very same Browser that came with Texture Universe, and which most of us bought and paid for T.U. SPECIFICALLY to get — I mean, the texture maps included were NICE and all, but they alone were just not worth anywhere NEAR the cost of that CD!). I even gave an analogy: imagine being promised by a car dealer that your new Mercedes includes a Blaupunkt Surround-Sound DAT & CD audio system with speakers custom designed by an audio engineer to provide "sweet spots" in all seating positions in the car, and to take the acoustics of the car's interior into account. But, when you received the car after having paid for it, you found it had only an el-cheapo AM radio. You complain, and they said that due to problems beyond their control, the Blaupunkt wasn't available. Yet they charged you the FULL price for the car as quoted WITH the sound system regardless. "BUT, we DID throw in this NIFTY little CARDBOARD WINDSHIELD SHADE to PROTECT your DASHBOARD from the SUN!!" #1, of course, such a cheap piece of cardboard is nowhere near as valuable, either in absolute value or in terms of desirability, as the Blaupunkt you were promised was. And, #2, YOU ALREADY HAVE ONE!! You even bought it earlier from the same dealer as part of a different promotion! Would you not be just a TAD bit upset with your Mercedes dealer in this situation? Now, what is different about this situation? NOTHING!! The SOLUTION I proposed was simple: set a perceived value for the Patch Modeller that we didn't get (say, $395). Then Autodesk sends out to all registered 3DSr"4" owners a certificate good for that amount, redeemable for the IPAS Plug-Ins of your choice from participating third-party Plug-Ins vendors (including the Yost Group). They in turn would send the certificates back to Autodesk with proof of purchase, and Autodesk would refund to the vendors the amount of $395 or whatever. This would've been a golden marketing opportunity. Many suppliers would likely be willing to accept the certificates at more than face value to get people to try their products. That way, while we still wouldn't have the promised Patch Modeler, we'd at least be able to get something of equal ABSOLUTE value and be sure to get something we did not already HAVE! One user might want to spend the certificate on, say, Bones Pro. Another, who already has Bones Pro, might prefer to get The Script Extensions instead. Yet another might want MeshPaint, or Yost Boutique #7, or perhaps a collection of less-expensive routines from Schrieber.
#188168From: Ronald K. LussierAug 30, 1995 5:01 PM
Autodesk has announced that a patch modeller will be shipped free to owners of R4 as part of their continuing support for 3DS Classic. Apparently they felt bad for you. – Ron
#188363From: Marion K. MarksAug 31, 1995 3:52 PM
Well, okay. That's good news. But I hope it wasn't because they felt "sorry for me," but rather because they felt bad about reneging on a promise they made to we their loyal customers. With this they are showing that they do care about keeping their word, and I am glad. You know, all this would've been avoided if in the press releases for 3DSr"4" where they mentioned the Spline Modeller, they had simply added the standard disclaimer, "Features subject to change without notice" or some such. But no such disclaimer was present. Check it out yourself.
#188406From: Robert C. RitgerAug 31, 1995 6:34 PM
Marion K. Marks: >> I haven't been keeping up with the boards lately << It shows! You come in with your bi-monthly strafing runs with more negative energy than most serial killers muster in a lifetime fo slaughter. <G> – Bob Ritger
#188533From: Ralph F. FrantzSep 1, 1995 10:13 AM
>> Marion K. Marks: >> It shows! You come in with your bi-monthly strafing runs with more negative >> energy than most serial killers muster in a lifetime fo slaughter. <G> Thanks Bob, for a name to match to these comments. Now I remember! <g> Even though there may be snippets in the messages that could make good discussion, the negativity blows the credibility (haven't I heard that comment on the news lately <g>). I'm glad Anne has spelled out the rules. Ralph
#188862From: Robert C. RitgerSep 3, 1995 8:32 AM
Ralph: >> Even though there may be snippets in the messages that could make good discussion, the negativity blows the credibility << ZAKLY! – Bob Ritger
#189542From: Marion K. MarksSep 7, 1995 10:27 AM
I'm not Marion. He is my employer. I'm one of his employees. But this is his account. As for my perceived negativity, perhaps I should make something clear: I feel that when people (corporations are legally people) make promises, they should keep them, or at least attempt to make good on them. When they do not, I feel that it should not be allowed to be swept under a rug, especially when the very customers responsible for their propsperity are hurt by it. If that's "negativity," then so be it. I'm a negative person, I guess.
#189790From: Robert C. RitgerSep 8, 1995 11:40 AM
Dear Prudence: >> I feel that when people (corporations are legally people) make promises, they should keep them << And here is the very reason that all of your postings seem like energy ill-spent. The feature list uploaded by Gary Yost for R4 back at SIGGRAPH 94 stated that the list was "preliminary and subject to change". With your experience in this field it is nothing short of unbelievable that you would purchase a product based so stringently on its preliminary feature list. Without confirming the feature list at the time of shipping you took a chance and it is your responsibility if you made plans which depended on the feature list remaining unchanged. You believe that a preliminary feature list constitutes a promise which is not only erroneous and dangerous but so improbable that it defies reason. I'm going to take a chance myself with MAX. There is a preliminary feature list posted and I've seen the product demonstrated. I'm going to give them my migratory $495 now instead of paying more later. I expect to get my money's worth when the product ships sometime next year. I know the feature list is going to change, it could be longer, it could be shorter. I know the ship date is "sometime this winter" which could mean March 20th, 1996. I'm buying into a degree of uncertainty. The last thing I'm going to do is hold anybody's feet to the fire for my own misunderstanding of the information I have at the current moment. – Bob Ritger
#190696From: Marion K. MarksSep 13, 1995 5:20 PM
The file "R4FEAT.TXT" which Gary uploaded and we downloaded does not contain the text "preliminary and subject to change" or indeed anything at all about "subject to change" or even the word "change" anywhere in it. Indeed, I posted some time ago that all of this could have been alleviated if Autodesk or Gary had indeed included such a standard disclaimer, but they didn't. It does, however, say "Preliminary Feature Set," so you do have a point. And Autodesk is making good on the issue by sending out a patch modeller, so as far as I'm concerned the discussion is over. I applaud this move of theirs. Just so you know, what bothered me was not that they left the modeller out. It was that they then proceeded to insult us by tossing in the Browser from Texture Universe (which we and most other 3DSr3 users already had!) as if that would make up for it. Had they simply said something like, "We will provide a patch modeller or some other add-on of equal worth to all registered R4 owners as soon as we have one ready," or "Here is a certificate for $n towards the purchase of any plug-in from any participating vendor," or even "We couldn't provide the spline modeller. We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused," I would not have felt that they were insulting my intelligence. Though in the latter case they should at least have lowered the price of the package a couple hundred or so to make up for the perceived loss of value, or provided a rebate for those who had already ordered and paid for it. But even that is secondary to the customer relations fiasco of leaving out a promised valuable feature and attempting to placate us with a far less valuable "toss-in" that most of us already had anyway! If they had just apologized and not tried to placate us with the Browser, even if they gave us no other remuneration, I would have been satisfied. — Joel Rea @ M&M Communications Concepts