CompuServe Thread

#Flyer Specs

31 messages in this thread
#179594From: henry tellerDec 23, 1994 8:19 PM
Videology, Inc 72-6 Newtown Rd, Suite 210 Danbury, CT 06810 (203) 270-9000 VIDEO TOASTER/FLYER SPECIFICATIONS – DECEMBER 21, 1994 Software Specifications: Switcher/Editor Simultaneous playback of two video streams with instantaneous rewind, fast-forwardand pre-roll Editing and sequencing of video clips, framestores and effects Clips (as croutons on the edit screen) placed next to one another on the storyboard will perform a cut True A/B roll is acheived by placing a transition between the clips Clips whose sequence produce an A/B roll situation will have the B clip's overlapping frames moved to the other harddrive without user input, producing a full two video stream input to the Toaster Switcher Any sequence made up of video clips, framestores, CG pages, and Toaster transitions may be viewed immediately as no rendering is required Since most of the effects requiring realtime video compression cause the Switcher to produce a video image with pixelized images, the Feral Effect board is available for realtime, non-pixelized compression. For effects not available with the Toaster Switcher, or to replace effects that cause pixelization, the effects may be rendered from the Flyer clips, through the use of LightWave, producing clean, broadcast quality transitions, limited only by the user's imagination Special effects/transitions may be created by the inexperienced user by using Hollywood F/X, selecting one of the many packaged effects, telling the program what features you want, and it will render it for you. A newer version, available by February '95, will allow the user to create the effect. Insert editing (overlaying a longer clip with audio with a shorter video clip) is possible Visual framestore representations (thumbnails) New file management capabilities built into the editor Fully automatic A/B roll editing Multiple video quality modes Play forward from any point Disk to disk high speed direct copy Over 100 new effects in Version 4.0 Using stereo RCA connectors, unbalanced stereo audio input and output can be recorded simultaneously with the video Two background stereo audio tracks may be added with a separate disk installed on the third SCSI interface Independent audio level control on all tracks Independent In and out audio points may be set creating a "split edit" with overlaping audio Stereo audio can be played from two video clips simultaneously, with independent volume level and face controls. All four stereo tracks (eight channels) are mixed down to final stereo output using the Flyer's on board DSP chip ToasterCG Ability to rotate, resize and shear text Unlimited CG pages stored independently Extensive ARexx controllability Improved brush preview operation Spell Checker ToasterPaint: (Amiga 4000 systems only) All-new interface Full-screen, full-color paint on the A4000 High-Performance airbrush Stencil Alpha Channel Alpha Channel painting New color editing with HSV color wheel PostScript text support including rotate, resize and shear New ARexx macro interface User definable palette Global flood fill LightWave LightWave output to Flyer Basic inverse kinematics "Unaffected by fog" option for objects "Unseen by Rays" option for objects Improved shadow mapping and soft filtering Anamorphic option for NTSC widescreen or CinemaScope Item selection by clicking in LightWave view Modeler Enhanced control of Bones Multi-level undo and redo Features Not Yet in .9 SMPTE recording Sequencing of CG overlays, scrolls and crawls New ToasterPaint for Amiga 2000 systems ChromaFX croutons Archive utilities Cutting Room: Bulk digitizing, audio stripping, stripping of still-stores, segmenting of long video clips Hardware Specifications Flyer Technical Specifications Video Signal Tolerances Differential Phase: <2 Differential Gain: <3% Chroma Bandwidth: Maximum available (NTSC standard) Compression Data Rate Data Rate Luminace Signal to Mode Peak Variance Bandwidth Noise Ratio Top Quality <8.0MB/sec 1.4-8MB/s >6.00 MHz @ -3dB 56 dB High Quality <3.7MB/sec 1.4-3.7MB/s >4.20 MHz @ -3dB >50 dB Low Quality <3.7MB/Sec 0.7-3.7MB/s >2.75 MHz @ -3dB >50 dB Note: Add 1.76K/sec(0.176MB/sec) for stereo audio recorded with video. Top Quality is true D2 quality which is 60 fields per second, full overscan (752 pixels wide by 480 lines high) Internally the Flyer works with D2 data so there is no D2/Composite transcoding The Flyer uses Newtek's Video Toaster Adaptive Statiscal Coding (VTASC). VTASC relies on reducing the quality of the video signal (i.e. dropping from D2 to Beta SP) instead of picture quality, as do JPEG, MPEG and WaveLet. The resulting degradation looks more like noise associated with video, since there is no visible pixelization. Using the faster, 9GB drives, lossless D2 quality can be acheived. The audio is 8 bit sample at 14.3 MHz using state of the art A/D, D/A converters Flyer Hard Drives IBM 3.5"x1.6" 2GB 70G8493 Seagate 3.5"x1.6" 4GB ST1515ON Seagate 5.25"x3.2" 9GB ST41080ON Hank/Videology – Where you get all the P.O.M.P. under all Circumstances
#179609From: J Saperstein/FontBankDec 23, 1994 10:43 PM
Thanks, Henry! I still think the omission of SMPTE is a major problem, particularly for tight edits. Also I see not mention whatsoever of a provision for building an EDL? Is this an oversight on my part? Or is there simply no way to do an EDL? Do you have any insight as to whether or not these items will be in 4.0? Again, thank you for posting this. Jerry
#179647From: henry tellerDec 24, 1994 7:23 AM
Jerry – You did notice that the Flyer 4.0 will record SMPTE in the inital step, if the user wants it. It seems that Newtek feels the Flyer really doesn't need time code control or and EDL. After all, when you can produce a finished production right off the Flyer, it is not necessary to go back and dubb or reedit the finished tape. Just change the Flyer project info, and recreate the tape. If they're right about being able to produce a finished, broadcast quality tape with the Flyer, then all you need to save is the Flyer's project file, if you wish to recreate and/or modify the production. It would also be somewhat difficult to have an EDL tied to the Flyer's capabilities, which interfaces and uses the Toaster CG and DVE, and take it anywhere else. And. of course, you can always run it on another Flyer. It seems to make sense, but actual usage will tell. Hank Hank/Videology – Where you get all the P.O.M.P. under all Circumstances
#179661From: J Saperstein/FontBankDec 24, 1994 11:59 AM
"It seems to make sense, but actual usage will tell." Yep – but the test drive can get awfully expensive. <G> Jerry
#180067From: daniel wolfDec 29, 1994 3:22 AM
Compared to anything similar in quality and ease of use, the Toaster/ Flyer is a bargain. D2 tape decks run in the 10's of thousands of $$.
#180105From: J Saperstein/FontBankDec 29, 1994 12:05 PM
"Compared to anything similar in quality and ease of use, the Toaster/ Flyer is a bargain. D2 tape decks run in the 10's of thousands of $$." Daniel: Judging from the messages I've seen, the Flyer has not implemented its highest quality levels and is not capable of providing the fabled D2 quality at this time. Is this a misimpression on my part? To some extent, I think it's a misleading issue in that most Toaster users don't have D2 decks to record to. Jerry
#180240From: Arnie CachelinDec 30, 1994 12:19 PM
Actually, it is the highest compression/ lowest quality modes that are not implemented in the flyers that are out there.
#180266From: J Saperstein/FontBankDec 30, 1994 4:06 PM
"Actually, it is the highest compression/ lowest quality modes that are not implemented in the flyers that are out there." Really, Arnie? From what I read here and in other places, it was the higher end modes that weren't implemented. Seems kind of odd that NewTek is nowhere to be found online telling their own story. Makes for a lot of confusion, I think. Jerry
#180470From: daniel wolfJan 2, 1995 1:31 AM
Having spent most of November to mid-December working at NewTek and with Arnie and others on the NewTek development squad I feel confident my answers are accurate. I am not speaking for NewTek but I got a pretty thorough examination of the Flyer system while doing that consulting project for the VTU DevCon (held in LA a couple weeks ago). I'll answer here to the best of my ability, and Arnie apparently just seconded my original reply that the Flyer as it exists DOES have its highest quality modes implemented.
#180495From: henry tellerJan 2, 1995 9:49 AM
PMFJI – Newtek Tech Support tells me that they have implemented the lossless, uncompressed D2 mode but that the user can's use it until the drives get fast enough to push 8MB/sec. Awesome!!
#180489From: henry tellerJan 2, 1995 8:01 AM
PMFJI – The highest quality provided with the Flyers shipping (.9's started shipping last week) provides for compressed D2, and requires less than 5MB/sec sustained transfer. The highest quality provided for is uncompressed D2, which requires 8MB/sec transfer. Since no drives currently provide that, it is not available. I've uploaded a message here today.
#180510From: Arnie CachelinJan 2, 1995 3:04 PM
Hmmm. I didn't know NewTek actually planned to do uncpompressed D2, as it is currently not possible (as you state). I know that the "sub-nyquist" modes were implemented later than the D2 modes, but both are available on the 3.9 version now, that what I was reeferring to, tanks for the clarification.
#180469From: daniel wolfJan 2, 1995 1:27 AM
I believe the highest quality levels are indeed implemented on the current incarnation of the Flyer. The use compression but it is a very reasonable type of compression which may vary between truly lossless and slight (visually negligible) loss. The second quality level now available has definitely 'lossy' compression but again the visual effect is nearly negligible. I have not seen commercial DW (sorry, D2) video tape machines but I can tell you that Flyer video is gorgeous.
#180066From: daniel wolfDec 29, 1994 3:21 AM
True, as supplied by NewTek the Flyer does not need an EDL or SMPTE. It is extremely easy to set up a fully edited project with Toaster transitions between clips in just minutes. And the end result is very beautiful video with ease. Others may wish to do other things, but NewTek's Flyer/Toaster combo is a true final product editing solution. It is possible to have a timeline or EDL system control the Flyer through 3rd party means.
#180070From: henry tellerDec 29, 1994 6:43 AM
Hi Dan – I had some handson over the holidays (still waiting for our dealer demo!!) and got to a point where the message "Effect cannot end before previous clip". This made sense, and yet adjusting the effect length or the clip length to correct for this still gave me the same message. If the storyboard had a timeline display option, I think this error could have been better visualized. And therefore, corrected easily. I have a feeling Newtek will have lots of input on version 4.01. Happy New Year – Hank Hank/Videology – Where you get all the P.O.M.P. under all Circumstances
#180465From: daniel wolfJan 2, 1995 1:17 AM
Hank, be sure to only load Toaster Effect croutons from some regular hard drive (NOT a Flyer drive). Flyer won't be able to both play video AND load a Toaster Effect crouton from a Flyer drive at the same time – hence the error. The Flyer checks IN ADVANCE of playing a project whether the series of Clip/Effect/Clip/Effect… can actually be played (some special tricks have to be done if successive clips are on the same Flyer drive) without errors and will tell you you have too short of a clip between two effects or such if it can't make it. Try adjusting the 'out' point of a clip preceding such an effect or try setting the effect's 'speed' to FAST to get around that type of error. I will not, in general, be able to answer lots of specific Flyer questions on this Forum unless CIS decides to let me on here for free. I certainly don't mind trying to answer, but I've got a feeling LOTS of questions are about to arise and this forum is a CIS business. The Flyer is AMAZING. I've been working on special direct Flyer control software for special applications (e.g. control over a serial line, etc.) and it is a terrific tool. Good luck – the 3.9 Toaster version went to CDROM pressing recently and should be out in the next few days (it has the latest Flyer software rev with it, of course). Tim Jenison told me Friday that all around it is even better than the version they used at the LA VTU Expo Flyer demos. For those requiring special programming or consulting services related to Flyer, please contact me by EMail.
#180496From: henry tellerJan 2, 1995 9:49 AM
Thanks for the input. I'm still awaiting our Dealer Beta Demo, and Newtek tells me they started shipping .9's last week. I've already lost two sales. I'm getting frustrated to hear how good it is and not have our unit. Trust you had a Happy New Year. – Hank Videology, Inc – Where you get all the P.O.M.P. under all Circumstances
#180117From: John ChangDec 29, 1994 2:01 PM
Daniel, I suppose that and EDL is not necessary for the "creative" editing environment of the Flyer, however, it would be convenient for those who only have conventional editing equipment to modify a Flyer created video clips. There has got to be a way to make a "log" of events created by the Flyer with EDL and tape information. Set it up as a background task if you will. The final edit is done, the log is stored as a standard Grass Valley EDL file. Someone working on something like that? Regards, John Chang
#180133From: J Saperstein/FontBankDec 29, 1994 5:01 PM
"There has got to be a way to make a "log" of events created by the Flyer with EDL and tape information." Thank you for articulating one of the points I was trying to make. Jerry
#180473From: daniel wolfJan 2, 1995 1:36 AM
I am working on things like that. If you have specific requirements, just EMail me.
#180065From: daniel wolfDec 29, 1994 3:16 AM
Other parties (myself included) are developing other things for Flyer. SMPTE may indeed be handled by NewTek. EDL stuff is likely to be done by 3rd parties first. If you need such software developed for a product, please contact me here by EMail.
#180081From: Michael MiloffDec 29, 1994 9:49 AM
Daniel, If you had two flyers – and you operated at a lossless level – would it not be possible to write software that created all sorts of special layering effects. And would it be further possible to do it with just one flyer or would some hardware adjustments be required to allow simultaneous retrive/play functions. Just wondering, Michael
#180227From: Paul HigginbottomDec 30, 1994 9:08 AM
Problem is, the I/O is still in the analog domain, so layering between flyers would still be lossy. Or is there a digital buss connector of some sort for chaining them?
#180230From: Michael MiloffDec 30, 1994 10:46 AM
I assume that the two flyer system would enable creation of filesstored in a digital format with extremely low levels of loss – such that one could copy the same digital file combined with video/images for which similar copying had been done – such that a layered, high quality D2 look could be achieved. ???
#180456From: Paul HigginbottomJan 1, 1995 10:18 PM
I don't see how. Flyer data is stored on drives connected directly to the Flyer as I understand it, thereby not permitting I/O at the "file" level. I think all I/O is still via the video connector, i.e., analog audio. Hope I'm wrong though.
#180481From: daniel wolfJan 2, 1995 2:02 AM
Flyer does have capability to do D2 I/O, at the file level and via hardware.
#180468From: daniel wolfJan 2, 1995 1:24 AM
I believe amazing things can be done with dual Flyers. I haven't been able to try those particular things you suggest. It is not now possible to simultaneously RECORD and PLAY on one Flyer, but it is possible to PLAY TWO DIFFERENT video clips simultaneously (as long as they are on different Flyer drives)!
#180521From: Michael MiloffJan 2, 1995 6:22 PM
I will have access to two flyers hopefully soon – one mine and one a colleague's – and we will start playing around with what we can do in terms of layering and so forth. We shall report back to the forum on what we find. My instinct is that the loss levels will be so low that good things can be done utilizing the different Toaster windows. Certainly, with Hollywood FX, some creative movement and layering should be possible.
#180522From: Michael MiloffJan 2, 1995 6:23 PM
Once I get my flyer and my colleague gets his, then we plan to play around with creating some different layers. Two flyers should give you at least four windows – with Hollywood FX, for instance, these windows could also be moving… I shall report back to the NewTek Forum on what we find.
#179614From: Michael MiloffDec 23, 1994 11:33 PM
Thank-you for placing all that information in a coherent format. Michael
#180064From: daniel wolfDec 29, 1994 3:14 AM
hank, I'm not sure all those details are really correct. I know of no 8mb/sec Flyer sampling mode. I also know of no 14mhz 8-bit audio mode (I believe it is 44.1 khz 16-bit). Please check with NewTek. All the Flyer video is D2. Drive must be able to handle 3.7 megabytes per second continuous over the whole drive platter surface. ONLY specific firmware revs of the drives you mentioned will work. PLEASE check with NewTek on all drives. The specific firmware revs MAY NOT be available in the general drive market so potential drive buyers should be cautious and not rush to buy only by manufacturer and model number! 'Dropping from D2 to Beta SP' is definitely misleading. You are right about the consequences of the compression – it is very very hard for the eye to see any degradation with NewTek's methods. In many cases the compression (roughly 3 to 1 for their highest quality) may indeed be lossless or nearly so. The roughly 6 to 1 compression of the next quality level is almost eye-perfect. D2 is simply a direct sampling of the NTSC waveform at 14.28mhz. About 10.5 mhz of that (really, 10.5megabytes/second out of the total 14.28megs/sec) is really the video signal. Hence, a 3 to 1 compression means the drives must run at about 3.5 (they say 3.7) megabytes/second. In the future it may be possible to use other drives as many drives are fast enough over part of the platter surface (outer regions usually) but may not handle the high data rates near the spindle. The Flyer FORMAT software WILL NOT format just 'any' drive – only SPECIFIC firmware revs on certain models. Audio drives are much less demanding and most users can probably use about any old SCSI hard drive for Flyer audio.