#PVR and Video Questions
22 messages in this thread
A few PVR and related video questions:
If you want to have approx 8-9 GB of storage for the PVR, is it better to buy
the Micropolis 9 GB AV drive with a 12ms access time, or two Micropolis 4 GB
A/V Drives with 8.5 ms access times, striped as one drive?
Does the PVR trigger a VCR when capturing from the VCR to the PVR and when
recording from the PVR to the VCR?
Does anyone use the PVR and the Sanyo GVR-S955 SVHS Edit Recorder?
I am looking to buy a Sanyo GVR-S955 Edit Recorder, does anyone know if this
unit supports audio insert editing, w/o overwriting the video track?
Are there any other suggestions on which SVHS decks to buy for this purpose?
Also, what type of editing monitor do you experienced people tend to use with
computer/animation/video editing application. ie Adobe Premiere/Razor Pro/PVR?
If there are any suggestions, please e-mail the model # if you don't mind
I have looked into SONY monitors and Panasonic, which is the best buy for the
money?
Thanks!,
Ken Lay
>A few PVR and related video questions:<
>If you want to have approx 8-9 GB of storage for the PVR, is it better to buy
the Micropolis 9 GB AV drive with a 12ms access time, or two Micropolis 4 GB
A/V Drives with 8.5 ms access times, striped as one drive?<
The PVR doesn't stripe drives as far as I know. I would get the 9GB if you want
that much storage outright.
>I am looking to buy a Sanyo GVR-S955 Edit Recorder, does anyone know if this
unit supports audio insert editing, w/o overwriting the video track?<
Not on the HiFi tracks, no SVHS recorder can do that, the Hifi tracks are under
the video tracks. You can insert audio on the linear tracks, but they are mono
and don't have the range of the hifi tracks.
>Are there any other suggestions on which SVHS decks to buy for this purpose?<
I'd skip the Sanyo since you don't need single frame recording. I'd get a JVC
5100/7100 at $600 or go with a Panasonic Ag-1970 at $1200.
>Also, what type of editing monitor do you experienced people tend to use with
computer/animation/video editing application. ie Adobe Premiere/Razor Pro/PVR?<
The Sony PVM-1354Q is a very nice 13" monitor with underscan, blue screen,
multiple inputs. Runs about $1000. A DPS V-Scope is an ISA Waveform
Monitor/Vectorscope on a card that runs around $800.
>I have looked into SONY monitors and Panasonic, which is the best buy for the
money?<
The Panasonic is nice, but I prefer Trinitrons screens. All of my monitors,
computer and video, are Trinitron displays.
Tim,
I must correct you on one issue:
>>Not on the HiFi tracks, no SVHS recorder can do that>>
This is not quite correct, JVC's BRS 822 series machines can do a single pass
Hi-Fi dub under the video. I have this particular deck, and it does work. I
don't use it except in extreme cases because it scares me to mess with a master
like that, but it indeed does work. Please note, it can only be done as a
single pass, and you cannot do any further editing to the tracks or you get
garbage.
Cheers,
Tom Flannery
<<This is not quite correct, JVC's BRS 822 series machines can do a single pass
Hi-Fi dub under the video.
Hello Thomas
I was listening in with interest. My BR-S822U deck dosnt seem to have this
capibility. It says that video and HiFi cannot be inserted seperatly.
Ed
Ed,
I'm in Korea right now and don't have my doc's handy….. I have tried this
with my deck and it des work. When I get home I'll see what I can find
regarding this feature.
Cheers,
Tom
Thomas
Thanks in advance for checking it out, I could use the capability to get higher
quality audio
Ed
>>
The PVR doesn't stripe drives as far as I know. I would get the 9GB if you want
that much storage outright.
Hmm.. The DPS documentation says that you will get uninterrupted playback, even
if they span multiple hard drives. True, this isn't disk striping, but it will
do what he wants it to do..
>The DPS documentation says that you will get uninterrupted playback, even if
they span multiple hard drives. True, this isn't disk striping, but it will do
what he wants it to do.<
I knew about uninterrupted playback, even with different compression settings.
I assume he wanted disk striping to increase quality.
>A few PVR and related video questions:<
>If you want to have approx 8-9 GB of storage for the PVR, is it better to buy
the Micropolis 9 GB AV drive with a 12ms access time, or two Micropolis 4 GB
A/V Drives with 8.5 ms access times, striped as one drive?<
The PVR doesn't stripe drives as far as I know. I would get the 9GB if you want
that much storage outright.
>I am looking to buy a Sanyo GVR-S955 Edit Recorder, does anyone know if this
unit supports audio insert editing, w/o overwriting the video track?<
Not on the HiFi tracks, no SVHS recorder can do that, the Hifi tracks are under
the video tracks. You can insert audio on the linear tracks, but they are mono
and don't have the range of the hifi tracks.
>Are there any other suggestions on which SVHS decks to buy for this purpose?<
I'd skip the Sanyo since you don't need single frame recording. I'd get a JVC
5100/7100 at $600 or go with a Panasonic Ag-1970 at $1200.
>Also, what type of editing monitor do you experienced people tend to use with
computer/animation/video editing application. ie Adobe Premiere/Razor Pro/PVR?<
The Sony PVM-1354Q is a very nice 13" monitor with underscan, blue screen,
multiple inputs. Runs about $1000. A DPS V-Scope is an ISA Waveform
Monitor/Vectorscope on a card that runs around $800.
>I have looked into SONY monitors and Panasonic, which is the best buy for the
money?<
The Panasonic is nice, but I prefer Trinitrons screens. All of my monitors,
computer and video, are Trinitron displays.
I am a neophyte. I have seen between here and the Multimedia forum about 1k
references to the "PVR". I gather it's great.
But what IS the PVR? I gather its a video capture board(?), but could someone
deencrypt the acronym for me? Please???
Thanks
Neil Makar
Neil.. If you want *very* detailed information, please private e-mail me, and
I'll be more than happy to send you a ton o' informaiton..
In a nutshell, PVR is the "Perception Video Recorder" — it's made by Digital
Processing Systems, Inc. It's a fantastic PCI card that lets you record digital
video to a dedicated Fast SCSI-II drive (yes — it plugs into the card, and it
provides drivers that make it look like a drive on your system..) Once you get
your data there, you can use programs like In:Sync's Razor/Razor Pro/Speed
Razor, or Adobe Premiere to do your special f/x and transitions, etc.. Then
(this is the kicker..) you can record your animations on a "standard" VCR, in
real-time! That's right, no single-frame VCR! This thing actually does CCIR
-601 (720×480), 30 frames per second (60 fields) out to either component
(Betacam/MII), S-video, and composite video output.. See, it can do that
because it's not going across your CPU & bus with the data, since the HD is
controlled by the board, it remains on the board until it goes out to the VCR!
But, the outstanding thing about it is that the quality you get out of this
thing is incredible, and it's extremely easy to use.. The video output section
utilizes 10 bit, 2x oversampled encoding, and provides better than D1 scaling..
Also, it integrates completely with your existing Windows/Windows NT software,
using a way-cool file system.. Video clips appear simultaneously in many
different file formats! See, a video sequence called "explosion" can appear in
one program as "D:\explosion.tga" and in another as "D:\explosion.bmp".. Let me
make it clear that there is no conversion needed!
Since you can connect seven SCSI devices, your recording time is only limited
by the total capacity of the drives connected.. The PVR hardware is capable of
providing *uninterrupted playback* from multiple video segments, even if they
span multiple hard drives!! You can usually expect about 4 minutes of video
playback per gigabyte.. That's an estimate, since it depends on the scene, and
the quality/storage ratio that *you choose*..
The hard drives certified by DPS as of August are:
Micropolis 4221AV 2.0GB 8 Minutes
3243AV 4.0GB 16 Minutes
1991AV 9.0GB 36 Minutes
Seagate ST-32550N 2.1GB 8 Minutes
ST-15150N 4.3GB 16 Minutes
(Again, the times above are approximate recording times..)
There's one other major feature I can't leave without telling you about.. It
has an optional daughtercard that allows for live video capture. This
full-length daughtercard adds component, composite, and S-Video inputs for
*real time* recording!! This card turns the PVR into a versatile component
video disk recorder.. A very sophisticated, automatic entropy prediction
circuit is used to determine the optimum amount of video compression on a
frame-by-frame basis.. Even during real-time recording!! Think about taking
live video shots and using them for rotoscoping inside your favorite 3D
package..
You'd think this thing would cost a fortune, right? Well, forum rules prohibit
mentioning prices, but you'd be extremely shocked at how *low* the price is..
Remarkable! (Pst.. If you want to know, just e-mail me..)
If I sound familiar with this card, it's because I build workstations (high end
Windows boxes) that use 'em.. Hope this information is useful!
Terry…
That's about the best description of the PVR I've ever seen. DPS should hire
you as a PR man! One question Warlock Guy <BG>, is… does the "daughtercard"
actually insert into a PCI slot and cable connect to the PVR or does it connect
directly into ports/jacks/whatever on the side of the PVR? Reason I ask is the
proverbial "how many slots" question. When I finally did get througgh to DPS,
I forgot that question, but they told me that the conbined width of the two
cards linked was about 1.500" so I assumed they had to be adjacent… but later
couldn't figure if that meant a hard mount or 2 slots used or just two slots
spae used <G>.
Terry, I'm not planning on COMDEX but will be at the VIDEO EXPO this week in
NYC where DPS claims several resellers/distributors should have the PVR setup
on display. Hopefully by then I may have one enroute from RSS <BG>!
\\\.
========================= >-==<MIKE(>=– >-==*-
/
>That's about the best description of the PVR I've ever seen. DPS should hire
you as a PR man!<
They already have, his description is the one DPS published. There is info in
the librarys.
>does the "daughtercard" actually insert into a PCI slot and cable connect to
the PVR or does it connect directly into ports/jacks/whatever on the side of
the PVR?<
The capture card does not plug into a PCI slot. It connects to the PVR through
a header connector to make a sandwich board.
In my Dell XPS100, Intel Premiere II Neptune mobo, the PVR and capture card
plug into the leftmost PCI slot and overhangs the motherboard. Only one PCI
slot is used. Since my other PCI slots are filled with video and a SCSI card
I'm looking to get another mobo. The ASUS dual pentium SMP board has 4 PCI
slots on the right and will allow the PVR and capture card to be plugged into
the left PCI slot. It overhangs the ISA connector, but keeps the other 3 PCI
slot free. This allows me to get the PCI 8 channel, 16 bit audio board from
DPS.
>> They already have, his description is the one DPS published. There is info
in the librarys.
You'll notice that my description is "similar", but not "exact". That was from
memory, but I must admit — it did come from many hours of phone calls
explaining the boards to (potential) customers.. So, maybe it's from ozmosis
(sp?).. <g>
Tim…
Thanks for the info. BTW, rather than building our own PC to handle the PVR
and daughterboard, we were hoping to find a reseller that would build a
complete setup for us, load the software and make sure it's all running. At
the Video Expo in NYC yesterday, we found three vendors that do just this, and
I'm writing them today to better define our needs.
On possible route is to find a PC builder that uses a motherboard which is
condusive to the PCI/CPU/Slots available problem. One company might be Tangent
Technologies which recently won the Editor's Choice Award in last week's
"comparison" of 66 Pentium machines. Tangent uses the TYAN Tiatan II mobo
which has at least two completely free PCI slots (of 4), the triton chipset,
built in HDD support, pipeline burst cache, but uses a conventional I/O card in
an ISA slot (there are 4) with no shared slots. Tangent offers either Diamond
Stealth 64 VRAM or STB PCI video cards. But they don't normally rig the
machine as a N/T box… that may be extra.
While I have you on the "line", tell me about NT and video cards and audio
cards. Are there any conflicts? Also, this machine will have to do generic
work in the office as well as edit video… so is there a way to run NT and
stil use other 16-bit applications like Corel 5, Adobe Photoshop 3.0a, and
other pre-W95 apps? Would I have to run W95 or WFWG 3.11 from within NT?
Oh, Jamie Carr was at the show yesterday, and I can't thank him enough for
spending 90 minutes or so with me. Demo'd Speed Razor (beautiful) using a PVR
in a Raptor 3. Jamie is the kind of guy you hope you will reach when you call
anyone for tech support. He doesn't talk down to anyone, and really gets
interested in your intended use. In Sync: is very lucky to have such a fine
person on their team.
\\\.
========================= >-==<MIKE(>=– >-==*-
/
>>…lucky to have such a fine person on their team…<<
Mike, Jamie OWNS In:Sync! But he's such a nice guy, you'd never know it, eh?
-Alan
Alan…
He owns it? WOW! Now I'm more impressed. A company owner who actually knows
his product!!!
\\\.
========================= >-==<MIKE(>=– >-==*-
/
Terry:
>> This thing actually does CCIR -601 (720×480)…
Not to rain on your parade, but CCIR-601 is 720×486. I always wondered where
those last six horizontal lines go! :^)
Greg Pyros
More than usefull – you're reply was JUST what I needed. Thank you.
But it sounds like it is well above what I am looking for. The emmense drive
requirements don't surprise me, but my boss would have a fit. Thirty minutes of
video requires more space than our entire four server network has!
I am not going to be ready to incorporate any video for a while, but I intend
to give a copy of your message to my boss…he becomes quite reasonable once
educated.
Thanks a lot. I'll take a rain check on further information.
I've already got the PAR and I was anxiously waiting PVR because I thought it
will bring major improvements compared with PAR.
Now I see this improvements are not what I expected for. There was to
necessities for me that PAR could'nt give (neither PVR can):
– Digital video output (Digital Betacam compatible).
– Simultaneous playback of Alpha data (digital also).
Describing PVR, you've said :>>It's a fantastic PCI card that lets you record
digital video to a dedicated Fast SCSI-II drive<<
But if both input/output are analog video, what's the deal about it?
I hope that in a new release of PVR, DPS guys will think in Broadcast
Postproduction guys.
>I've already got the PAR and I was anxiously waiting PVR because I thought it
will bring major improvements compared with PAR.<
There are some. PCI bus, SCSI drives, higher quality, batch digitizing, same
price.
>Now I see this improvements are not what I expected for. There was two
necessities for me that PAR could'nt give (neither PVR can):<
>- Digital video output (Digital Betacam compatible).<
>- Simultaneous playback of Alpha data (digital also).<
>>Describing PVR, you've said :>>It's a fantastic PCI card that lets you record
digital video to a dedicated Fast SCSI-II drive<<
>But if both input/output are analog video, what's the deal about it?<
The big deal is that it costs $1995. There is nothing that comes close to the
PVR quality at that price besides the PAR.
>I hope that in a new release of PVR, DPS guys will think in Broadcast
Postproduction guys.<
There are plenty of people doing broadcast post, not at DPS prices, we need
someone like DPS doing stuff for users who can't afford Digital Betacam.
The Toaster had the same problems, it was composite when most people wanted
component.
>>There are plenty of people doing broadcast post, not at DPS prices, we need
someone like DPS doing stuff for users who can't afford Digital Betacam.
The Toaster had the same problems, it was composite when most people wanted
component.<<
Ok, ok…
When the price is right, you cannot ask for heaven.
At least, with PAR or PVR we have component. Not bad.