#3D Studio Max
17 messages in this thread
Since all the material available on 3D Studio Max indicates that it will
work best on a "Glint Based" graphics board, does any one have a source, or
list of which boards are based on this chip? Would anyone at Yost/Autodesk
care to give any more information on which graphics board I should consider
buying as I up- grade towards 3D Studio Max?
-Scott
German videocard manufacturer ELSA already delivers the Glint basing "GLORIA".
Didn't have a hands-on, but several
magazines reports that the card's quite faaaaaaaast with the existing Open/GL &
Hoops drivers.
Bye from Stuttgart, Germany
Jan / imagelab
Thanks Jan! I appreciate the info. [It just so happens I'll be in Frankfurt
next week!] -Scott
Scott,
Another site on the web to check out is Lockheed/Martin's Real3D site. It
is at www.lockheed.com/real3d/ it covers the Real3D chipset. It will be faster
than the current Glint chip. It supports texture mapping on chip, not yet
supported by Glint until the TX version is released. It should be available in
boards by the time MAX ships. It is another wait and see option though.
From what I've read, any card that supports Open GL will work with MAX. If
you want the best speed though you need Hoops drivers with the card. These are
done for the Glint chip to my knowledge. I don't think that GOOD cards for max
will get "cheap" soon due to the RAM requirement for performance. An average
board will have 16MB of combined RAM. The really high end PCI card from Evan
and Sutherland has 34MB of texture RAM alone. It is also very pricey. But, it
will make MAX preview render VERY quickly.
Due to several factors I for one will wait to choose a card. With the entry
of the Real3D chip to the fray, the market may be more competitive by years
end. And I can always add a card later say in Mar. I may suffer with a Matrox
Millenium until I choose a real accelerator card.
If you want some more web sites I'll post all the sites I have found, there
are several.
-Matt (Active Media Graphics)
Y 50 /g fM/
Thanks Matt, I too will probably have to suffer for awhile with a Matrox, or
ATI card. This will primarily be due to the cost itself, as well as trying to
figure out what is the best card to buy. -Scott
In addition to Elsa, Scott, give Omnicomp a call at 713/464/2990.
One of their Glint-based cards was used to demo MAX at Siggraph.
-Alan
Thanks Alan. Yes I was aware of Autodesk's use of that card at Siggraph.
Unforntunately, the cost of that card appears to list at $1995. I'm still
hoping for a card with a less painfull price tag.
-Scott
As these boards seem to need ALOT of VRAM and DRAM to do their thing, I
wouldn't imagine there's gonna be a considerably less expensive solution for
some time, Scott.
Someone did claim, however, that the game-oriented Glint-based board that
Creative Labs was going to offer would support the HDI API and be usable with
MAX. Their stuff is usually relatively inexpensive and I'm gonna research this
next week as it sounds a little unlikely to me. But heck, what the hey do I
know? Maybe CL will offer a great low-priced solution…
I'll post any usable info I come up with here.
-Alan
Alan,
<< Someone did claim, however, that the game-oriented Glint-based board that
Creative Labs was going to offer would support the HDI API and be usable with
MAX. >>
I thought Kevin Krell said that it wouldn't be compatible. Kevin?
Mark
I'd guess KevinK is probably right….
-Alan
bad news scott,
the gloria-familys price range is about he same level…
but still cheaper and quicker than SGI/Extreme <G>
What are you going to do in Frankfurt BTW?
Bye from Stuttgart, Germany
Jan / Imagelab
Scott,
<< Unfortunately, the cost of that card appears to list at $1995. I'm still
hoping for a card with a less painfull price tag. >>
unfortunately, that's the average price for all of the cards.
Mark
>>which Glint boards…
Good question. At Siggraph, an Omnicomp board was being used to in the MAX
demo. However the Omnicomp needs a separate VGA card to boot and I didn't want
to waste an additional slot.
I nearly bought an ELSA since 3DLabs, the Glint maker, said it was the only
board that had a built-in VGA. (Even in an NT-only INTEL machine, a VGA board
is required to boot)
My dealer called ELSA who did not know whether their boards would be supported
by Autodesk. He then Omnicomp who claimed that their 3Demon was the ONLY board
for now that would be supported, and specifically that the ELSA board would NOT
work with MAX. How Omnicomp "knew" this, I don't know. Since the money I had
available for the board would go away on 10/1/95, I ordered an Omnicomp.
My advice is to not to get in a big hurry (as I was forced to be), and wait
until Max ships. The options should then be well defined and the Max-supported
boards will certainly be announced.
However, with the caveat that you are flirting with disaster if it turns out
that only the Omnicomp board will work, to answer your question about sources
for Glint boards, the Glint hardware partnership list as of July 95 comprised:
Creative Technology 408-428-6600
Densan (Japan) +81-3-3329-3871
ELSA 408-565-9669
Force (Japan) +81-3-5350-2350
Fujitsu 408-922-9770
Media Labs 713-942-0670
Mentor (Macintosh) 404-874-4833
Microstep 818-964-5048
NEC (MIPS) 415-528-5660
Omnicomp 713-464-2990
YARC (Macintosh) 805-499-9444
3DLabs at 408-436-3455 or http://www.3dlabs.com/3dlabs will be able to provide
an upldated list.
BTW, unless the target MAX machine will only be used with NT, it may actually
be an advantage to have a separate VGA card, even at the expense of an extra
slot. That way, you wouldn't be locked into the problems of whatever type of
VGA happened to be provided on the Glint board. I learned this the hard way
some years back when I briefly had a SnapPlus combo video in/out board with
that included a horribly slow VGA.
JKJ, Oak Ridge, TN
Hiya Johnnie!
Rest assured that the Elsa folks have every intention of supporting MAX with
their GLoria line of Glint-based cards. This comes right from the horse's
mouth, so-to-speak.
In fact, I've been told that Elsa will offer an 8Mb board that supports 24-bit
color without a rendering performance hit. Don't think it's gonna need a
"parent" VGA board, either.
Not being in a big hurry is great advice as there is probably plenty of time
yet, and there's no doubt much to iron out in the way of driver issues.
-Alan
Hi John,
>
>My dealer called ELSA who did not know whether their boards would be supported
>by Autodesk. He then Omnicomp who claimed that their 3Demon was the ONLY board
>for now that would be supported, and specifically that the ELSA board would
>NOT work with MAX. How Omnicomp "knew" this, I don't know. Since the money I
>had available for the board would go away on 10/1/95, I ordered an Omnicomp.
>
I see Alan already sent a message regarding this, but I also don't know where
Omnicomp got their information and I find it particularly unworthy of them
(they are nice people down there in Texas).
FWIW, the GLoria has been tested with pre-released versions of MAX and works.
The GLoria will definitely run MAX, and very well. 🙂
Hope that helps.
Sincerely,
Tom
>>Gloria tested with MAX…
Hello Tom, and thanks for clearing this up. As I implied in my
message, I suspected some sort of information hole (rather than
dirty tricks) My personal dealings with both Omnicomp and ELSA have
been positive.
I suspect that particular dealer may have been somewhat biased
against promoting the ELSA by the "vague" and "non-commital"
response he reportedly got when he called ELSA. If you'd like, I'll
ask him if he remembers who he talked to at ELSA.
I looked at the ELSA at Siggraph and talked to someone at the booth
there. I was very impressed with the ELSA boards, which was why I
asked the dealer to price one for me.
The on-board VGA sounds attractive since it would free up a valuable
slot in the machine. On the other hand, I worry about being
confined to what ever VGA implementation happens to be built into
the card. For an NT machine only, this wouldn't matter, but it
could be a show-stopper in a multi-purpose machine (DOS 3DS + NT
3DS-MAX + Windows). This setup, which I suspect many here will run
for a while even after the MAX release, will require a fast SVGA
that is supported seamlessly by 3DS/Vibrant. We've seen enough SVGA
nightmares to be cautious about a new card! If ELSA is interested
in the 3DS market, I suggest (if you havent't already done so)
making sure the Vibrant drivers will support your VGA implementation.
I would certainly love to see one of your boards in action with 3DS
or hear all about it from some 3DS maniac on this forum. (They're
ruthless around here <g>) You might also want to work up a deal
with Autodesk to have them actually demo your board in one of their
MAX previews. (I heard there is one comming up in Atlanta on 10/3)
JKJ
Hi John,
Thanks for the reply. The on-board VGA is an S3 Vision968 which will be
supported for 3DS Classic as well.
As for the non-commital response goes, remember that 3DS MAX is new for *all*
of us, so I can imagine a sales representative would rather be cautious than
give out false information. 🙂 Although if you can email me information about
the dealer, who he spoke with, when, etc, then I'll give the feedback to those
concerned. They appreciate it.
Thanks,
Tom