#THE Perfect System
29 messages in this thread
We are looking for The Perfect System for 3D Studio 4 & 3D MAX. WE are looking
for input on complete systems and/or individual components
(Motherboards/Chipsets/Video Cards/BIOS Preference/) all to work well with
3DS4, 3D MAX, DPS products, Windows NT, Windows 3.1/etc.
Any input or suggestions, whatsoever, is greatly appreciated.
We are looking for info on any platform, but leaning towards PC(Intel).
Thanks,
Mike C.
I've been researching the "perfect" system, with the hope of buying one that
could take me through at least the first year of MAX. It appears that this
"perfect" system does not yet exist because the only chipset that supports the
new, faster EDO memory is the Triton chipset, and it DOESN'T support
Symmetrical Multi-Processing. That said, the fastest Pentium with the most RAM
(32 megs, minimum) and at least a 2-gig hard drive, with at least a 17"
monitor, is about as good as it's gonna get until there's a successor to the
Triton chipset, or the P6, or both.
PMJI, currently I'm working with P133 Triton,96MB……I tried EDO-Ram, but I
haven't noticed any visible change, save the horrible price <g>
Have you experienced any speedups, and what did you do for it ?
Michael
I haven't actually tried EDO yet; I'm trusting the veracity of PC Magazine (and
others) test reports, which claim something like a 10% improvement — maybe 10
seconds off a two-minute frame render, if they're accurate, but to my mind,
every little bit helps! What you're saying gives me pause, however. Have you
tried rendering the same scene on a non-EDO 133 and seen no difference?
Quad DEC Alpha…I feel the need for speeeeeeed……
Aaaaaah, yes, but one of the dirty little secrets we are about to face is the
fact that your apps under NT must be optimized for different CPUs. While it is
likely, I hear, that a MAX for Alpha will be released, such has not been
announced. Not being seriously knowledgeable about the issues at hand, I'm not
even sure that a MAX for Intel NT would run at all on NT for Alpha. Perhaps
some wiser head could enlighten me…
SCL
Talk to Martin Foster of Metrolight. I'm pretty good when it comes to hardware
but he puts me to shame!
Right now everything I want to use with NT is already out there. MS Word,
Excel, and a few others. I loaded NT on my P100 at the office and everything
(so far) has converted over. I ran four flics at once. Wild. Only thing that
didn't was the Turtle Beach card and they are working on the NT drivers. I knew
that beforehand. I noticed an increase in speed under NT for most things too. I
didn't go all the way and reformat the hard disk. I wanted to keep DOS/WFWG as
my main thing. The NT install was to start working with it. So now I can dual
boot to DOS or NT.
Frankly, the only point in doing the Alpha thing is for 3DS, otherwise I would
do P6's.
Drop me a note.
Bye!
Yes, I've played with machines running the same dual-boot configuration you're
talking about. Perhaps I was insufficiently clear previously, but what I was
asking about was whether, running NT on Alpha(s), apps needed a total recompile
to run at all, or was it just an optimization issue to get the best
performance.
But thanx for your input!
Supposedly, not all apps need to be recompiled. I don't know. Just the ones
I've run are ok.
Thanks.
An Intel CPU 3DS Max will _NOT_ run on an Alpha CPU box. The CPU instruction
sets are different. Instructions that exist on the Intel don't exist on the
Alpha (and visa versa). The CPU and register sets are completely different.
LAM
<<Aaaaaah, yes, but one of the dirty little secrets we are about to face is the
fact that your apps under NT must be optimized for different CPUs.>>
That is no secret. It's really simple. You simply produce a different version
of the program for each different CPU type. You simply recompile the program
for a different CPU. So you end up with a different program for each different
computer. You then put all the different versions on a CD and then the user
installs the program that is suited to his/her particular computer.
There really is no big deal in recompiling the program for different computers.
Many of the compilers now produce code for different machines automatically,
though often you have to spend a day or more fine tuning it for the different
architectures.
Gary, himself, said that they would just recompile the code on the Dec Alpha to
see how well it going on the Alpha architecture.
<<Not being seriously knowledgeable about the issues at hand, I'm not even sure
that a MAX for Intel NT would run at all on NT for Alpha.>>
A MAX version compiled for Intel processors would run on a Alpha, but not as
native code, instead it would be run like the Alpha runs all Intel code,
interpreted, so you wouldn't be taking full advantage of the Alpha. Instead if
the program is recompiled specifically for the Alpha then it would run at it's
maximum.
DaviD "one in – multiple outs" GouID
Thanks for the tip.
I know Gary said they were going to support Intel only to start.
Come on Alpha!
Mark
Yes, what you're saying is what I suspected. Thanx for the additional info,
too.
>>same scene on a non-EDO 133 and seen no difference?
exactly !
Concerning EDO – if you have no cache, EDO gives you the 10% burst, but if you
want to get the best of your money, buy pipeline cache…. and forget edo, it
gives around 1% if PCache is in.
Michael
Veeeerrrry interesting! You may've just saved me a bunch of $$$. Thanx!
I'm intrested in buying a new system to run NT and 3DS MAX. Right now I am
trying to make the best economic and system architecture decision I can. Dual
Pentium capable systems are a bit expensive because they fall usually into the
server class. With the P6 about to be released, and its true 32 bit data path I
wonder if it makes any sense at all to run dual Pentiums. I am really undecided
as to if I should buy a 133mhz single Pentium capable system or a 100mhz dual
capable machine. Some of the vendors I have been looking at are Digital, HP,
ALR for dual and Compaq for single processor systems. If you have any insight
into this matter I would really appreciate it.
Thanks,
Kyle
That's exactly the conundrum I'm finding myself in! Micron is advertising a
dual-133 configuration that would come in right around five figures set up as a
dedicated rendering slave (small monitor, plain vanilla video card, SCSI
w/2gigs, 4x cd-rom but forget the audio stuff, and 128 megs o' RAM). That
looks like the best dual system I've seen, not counting custom stuff.
Re the P6: I'd wait 'til spring to get one, if you can wait that long…
Remember the Pentium 60/66? Also, it sounds to me like MAX won't be out 'til
Feb. or Mar. anyway.
Of course this is just my opinion… For myself, I've decided to wait for a
P150 as a stop-gap, then when MAX comes out I'll start to investigate P6 versus
Alpha…
Your thoughts?
A few comments:
A recent benchmark study in Computer Shopper put the Micron 133 at the top of
the heap. And most of the trades are printing anti-P6 studies. Seems that the
P6 is having trouble keeping up with the midrange Pentiums. Even in native code
some of the apps tested barely were up to the 133 speeds.
Just a few migrant thoughts….SW
Thanx; I've read the same article.
And that just corraborates what I've been saying all along (for the last month,
anyway) about the P6. It's gonna be the P5/60/66 all over again. The earmarks
are all there — (relatively) large-trace fabrication process (equals bigger,
more power-hungry and hotter) and clock speeds identical to existing pieces.
The fact that they're pitching it as a "server chip" means nothing, as I'm sure
you know — they did that with the 286, initially.
Betcha we don't see "real" P6s (.35 micron or smaller fab, 200+MHz clock speed)
before Mother's Day. They just recently closed out _applications_ for beta
testers. I forget the exact terminology they used but that was what it amounted
to… Sounds to me like they're running behind their announced schedule,
particularly if they want to protect what's left of their reputation after the
Pentium FPU mess.
Sorry, didn't mean to get on my soapbox, but you started it!<bg>
SCL
I have just one thing to say…
GO ALPHA! GO ALPHA! GO ALPHA!
Iwanta8plex300MhzDECAlphaboxwithaOpenGLcardthatsHDIcapableandaGIGoframandaPVRca
dwiththree9gigMicropolisA/VdrivesandIwantitnowSanta!Ican'twaitforChristmas!
Steve, I'm going to the Autodesk MAX demo in Austin TX this week. I'll get the
straight poop!
Mark…
>Triton chipset, and it DOESN'T support Symmetrical Multi-Processing.<
Triton2 chipsets will support SMP. I don't know when they will be availabel,
but since the SMP 120/133 chips just came out I would say real soon.
Thanx! This is the first I've heard of the Triton2 chipset. Perhaps I'll get on
the Web and see what I can turn up on Intel's home page. I'll let you know if I
find anything interesting/pertinent!
SCL
To ALL,
As of today, the Triton chip set is in a holding pattern since there are bugs
still in the SMP routines. So no dual or quad P6's for the moment.
That is from this week's Infoworld.
Well, you can bet somebody's having their feet held to the fire until the
problems get solved! Thanx for filling me in.
SCL
>As of today, the Triton chip set is in a holding pattern since there are bugs
still in the SMP routines. So no dual or quad P6's for the moment. That is from
this week's Infoworld.<
The P6 uses the Orion chipset, the Triton2 is for Pentiums. That is what I saw
in Infoworld.
Your right, dummy here made a boo boo, sorry!
By the way, did you read the latest BYTE? Says P6 ain't so hot, especially for
16-bit stuff.
Yes they did say it choked on 16-bit apps, but was still easily twice
as fast as the Pentium with native 32-bit coded stuff. Which is exactly what NT
& MAX are so their shouln't really be a problem.
JAson
Yep, you're right about the native 32-bit stuff.
If you have been reading any of the threads for the past few weeks you'll see
there are a lot of people interested in the Alpha. I think its going to be
awile before we see quad P6's because of the Orion chip set problems. No
multiprocessor boards.
However, I can build a 8-plex DEC Alpha 275Mhz right now. Now if Adesk will
just release the native Alpha version…
I think Intel will ask a premium for the P6 at least for the first half of '96
so if possible I'm going Alpha.
We'll see…
Drop me a note.
Mark
<<Yes they did say it choked on 16-bit apps, but was still easily twice as fast
as the Pentium with native 32-bit coded stuff. Which is exactly what NT & MAX
are so their shouln't really be a problem.>>
These are exactly my sentiments as well. 16-bit applications will be slowly
phases out so it is only natural that all the latest processors be optimized to
run 32-bit at maximum performance. But in any case since the P6 will be faster
than the P5 the lost of speed using 16-bit applications will be made up by the
difference in performance on the P6, i.e. 16-bit applications will run faster
on a P6 than a P5.
DaviD "adding a few more bits to the puzzle" GouID