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#CompuS Copyright
19 messages in this thread
Steve:
The notion that CIS claims it has anthological copyright to the files in DL
is outrageous. The analogy you draw to the publishing arena are certainly
not precedencial; they are part of the US Copyright law.
Using this logic, do I have anthological copyright to the 100+ public
domain disks that I have? No, of course not. CIS provides a librarian
service (although this analogy is not quite accurate either, since public
libraries are free) for a fee. They maintain a system that allows easy
searching and downloading of public domain programs, data and text files.
Do you mean to say that CIS sends a copy of every single file it maintains
online to the Copyright Registration Office every week, along with their
$10 cheque? I don't think so.
Of course, the author of a program may include a notice that the program
may not be uploaded to any other public data libraries. This notice has
all of the legal force of the '… may not be duplicated in any form …'
notices that you see on commercial programs every day. And they're just as
enforcable.
CIS has no right, under the law, to defend the copyright of an author whose
program is in their data libraries. Unless, of course, that author has
retained CIS to defend him. And, of course, CIS had no legal ground to
tell Mr. Sande that such-and-such program would not be permitted on his
BBS. It's nothing more than the typical harrassment by a big business of a
little guy that isn't aware of his rights.
Roger
Who says you have to send the money to the Copyright Office in order to
have a copyright????? That is _NOT_ what the law says. All registering
with the Copyright Office does is provide legal proof of the starting date
of the Copyright. Not filing does not in any way remove (or prevent) the
copyright on the work.
I see no contradiction at all in CIS claiming an anthology copyright on the
DLs. That is not at all the same as what your 100 PD disks are. Do you
have a disk catalog and description of each file? If you do then the two
cases are similar, if you don't they aren't.
Who said the author didn't retain CIS to protect his copyright? Not having
talked to author neither one of us is in a position to say whether he did
or didn't.
If you go check on MAUG (where a lot of the file came from) you will find a
lot of programs uploaded by Apple as official updates to system software.
For these files Apple has a contract with MAUG to distribute these files
(MAUG is the only legal electronic distribution source). If any of these
files were involved (I don't know, I only saw a very limited part of
Sande's BBS so I can't say for sure) then CIS (as the represenative of
MAUG) had a very definite right to do something.
You sure seem convinced that CIS is just a big guy picking on a little
guy. Have you every considered that CIS is being picked on since they are
number one? (This is just a valid a claim as the one you made.)
Hi Dan, what you wrote about 'Copyright' is accurate. What is so crazy
about most of those complaining about CIS' policy is that they don't seem
to understand what Copyright is about or why, how and when it comes into
effect. Frankly I am surprised reading messages by folks who don't want
their intellectual accomplishments protected, even if they want to give it
away for free. Scott
Hi Dan, what you wrote about 'Copyright' is accurate. What is so crazy
about most of those complaining about CIS' policy is that they don't seem
to understand what Copyright is about or why, how and when it comes into
effect. Frankly I am surprised reading messages by folks who don't want
their intellectual accomplishments protected, even if they want to give it
away for free. Scott
Dan:
There is a fee that accompanies a copyright registration. I'm aware of the
reasons and meaning of registering; please read some of my other messages
(specifically, I think, to Steve Ahlstrom).
In fact, I have catalogued, quite thoroughly, my collection of PD. I still
have no right to anthology claims because, among other reasons, it's not
published.
I'm sure the CIS attorneys are not free lancing for PD authors.
I certainly am convinced of CIS picking on the little guy.
Roger
Yes there is a fee in copyright registration. But NO WHERE does it say you
have to register anything to copyright a program. TO copyright something
you must place a copyright notice in the work and then distribute the work
(sell it or whatever). That is ALL you have to do. Registering the
copyright just provides proof of when the copyright began (important if you
have a court battle over the work).
I consider the DL's to be published, which means CIS can claim an anthology
copyright.
I never said CIS's attorney was freelancing. All I said was that the
author requested CIS to represent him and they did. (Any financial
arrangements are the author's and CIS's business not ours.)
I don't see CIS picking on a little guy, I see them pointing out to a
person that he was breaking the law. In my mind that is "picking" on
someone.
I assume you meant "In my mind that is [not] picking on someone".
I assume you meant "In my mind that is [not] picking on someone".
Yes there is a fee in copyright registration. But NO WHERE does it say you
have to register anything to copyright a program. TO copyright something
you must place a copyright notice in the work and then distribute the work
(sell it or whatever). That is ALL you have to do. Registering the
copyright just provides proof of when the copyright began (important if you
have a court battle over the work).
I consider the DL's to be published, which means CIS can claim an anthology
copyright.
I never said CIS's attorney was freelancing. All I said was that the
author requested CIS to represent him and they did. (Any financial
arrangements are the author's and CIS's business not ours.)
I don't see CIS picking on a little guy, I see them pointing out to a
person that he was breaking the law. In my mind that is "picking" on
someone.
Dan:
There is a fee that accompanies a copyright registration. I'm aware of the
reasons and meaning of registering; please read some of my other messages
(specifically, I think, to Steve Ahlstrom).
In fact, I have catalogued, quite thoroughly, my collection of PD. I still
have no right to anthology claims because, among other reasons, it's not
published.
I'm sure the CIS attorneys are not free lancing for PD authors.
I certainly am convinced of CIS picking on the little guy.
Roger
Who says you have to send the money to the Copyright Office in order to
have a copyright????? That is _NOT_ what the law says. All registering
with the Copyright Office does is provide legal proof of the starting date
of the Copyright. Not filing does not in any way remove (or prevent) the
copyright on the work.
I see no contradiction at all in CIS claiming an anthology copyright on the
DLs. That is not at all the same as what your 100 PD disks are. Do you
have a disk catalog and description of each file? If you do then the two
cases are similar, if you don't they aren't.
Who said the author didn't retain CIS to protect his copyright? Not having
talked to author neither one of us is in a position to say whether he did
or didn't.
If you go check on MAUG (where a lot of the file came from) you will find a
lot of programs uploaded by Apple as official updates to system software.
For these files Apple has a contract with MAUG to distribute these files
(MAUG is the only legal electronic distribution source). If any of these
files were involved (I don't know, I only saw a very limited part of
Sande's BBS so I can't say for sure) then CIS (as the represenative of
MAUG) had a very definite right to do something.
You sure seem convinced that CIS is just a big guy picking on a little
guy. Have you every considered that CIS is being picked on since they are
number one? (This is just a valid a claim as the one you made.)
Roger,
You state your facts as if you were well acquainted with the copyright
laws. Your facts also are in disagreement with what has been published in
books relative to copyright law and what CIS claims (thru their corporate
lawyers) to be the law. Can you perhaps give us your background in this
area so the readers can properly evaluate your statements? Don
Don:
I read 'so the readers can properly evaluate your statements' to mean you.
I'd be happy to give my background.
I'm a composer, musician and inventor with over 20 patents and over 100
(well over 100, actually) registered and published works. I'm also very
close with my patent/trademark/copyright attorney (who also happens to be
my brother), with whom I consulted on the issues raised here before putting
my two cents in.
Incidentally, it seems I've managed to persuade my brother to write a paper
on this issue (using messages that I've archived) – he specializes in
copyright law as it pertains to the software and toy industries (er,
different specialties there, of course). With his permission, I'll UPLoad
the paper upon completion.
Roger
Roger,
Certainly I was interested, and I also hope the others reading the thread
were interested in your background so they could evaluate the validity of
your statements. I'm sure you have seen messages posted here that seem to
be from authoritive sources, but when pressed on the issue, it turns out
that the author has no background or experience in the area.
With the background you stated, I would certainly have to give some weight
to your statements and would appreciate an upload of your brother's
information if he so allows.
Roger,
Certainly I was interested, and I also hope the others reading the thread
were interested in your background so they could evaluate the validity of
your statements. I'm sure you have seen messages posted here that seem to
be from authoritive sources, but when pressed on the issue, it turns out
that the author has no background or experience in the area.
With the background you stated, I would certainly have to give some weight
to your statements and would appreciate an upload of your brother's
information if he so allows.
Don:
I read 'so the readers can properly evaluate your statements' to mean you.
I'd be happy to give my background.
I'm a composer, musician and inventor with over 20 patents and over 100
(well over 100, actually) registered and published works. I'm also very
close with my patent/trademark/copyright attorney (who also happens to be
my brother), with whom I consulted on the issues raised here before putting
my two cents in.
Incidentally, it seems I've managed to persuade my brother to write a paper
on this issue (using messages that I've archived) – he specializes in
copyright law as it pertains to the software and toy industries (er,
different specialties there, of course). With his permission, I'll UPLoad
the paper upon completion.
Roger
Roger,
You state your facts as if you were well acquainted with the copyright
laws. Your facts also are in disagreement with what has been published in
books relative to copyright law and what CIS claims (thru their corporate
lawyers) to be the law. Can you perhaps give us your background in this
area so the readers can properly evaluate your statements? Don