CompuServe Thread

#Cops, Courts, Crooks

13 messages in this thread
#89048From: Marlene ZenkerOct 14, 1987 12:41 PM
Ben, I tend to agree stongly with your feelings though not necessarily with all of your soloutions. I do agree that prosecuting people for gambling and prostitution are a total waste of time and tax payer dollars. No one is forced to gamble or goto a prostitute and if they choose to do so that's their perogative. As to drugs, I don't totally agree with you. The answer isn't arresting the kid who is stoned out of their mind on whatever it's rooting out the dealers and organizations who bring drugs into this country. On an emotional level I would love to see murderers and rapists etc. die slowly in the most torturious way but practically speaking that isn't a great idea – why not just bring back the death penalty everywhere and get rid of them ASAP. There are cases where people are arrested, convicted and prosecute falsly – but for God sakes in crimes that are incredibly brutal where there are witnesses etc – get rid of them NOW. BTW, have you thought about the time, places and tax payer dollars necessary to support public death penalties – I mean we'd have to go back to crucifixion and then you would have to hire a union person to build the cross, another union person to put in in the ground, another to actually do the nailing .. Marlene
#89060From: Ben BlishOct 14, 1987 1:19 PM
Perhaps being in a union should be a major crime — as for executions, I'm sure that the victims family(s) would be willing to donate the time and effort required to bring the criminal to an appropriate end. And the reason one kills the criminal in the most horrible way possible is for _deterrance_ something the current system very rarely provides. "If I do this, they're gonna kill me by: (1) lethal injection (sleep) (2) electric chair (not pleasant, but usually quick) (3) hanging (quick, painless) gas chamber (quick, painless)… criminal is not intimidated. He faces the possibility of a more painful death during the commission of the crime (If he goes for me, I flipping well _gaurantee_ it!) than he does if the system gets him. Now, if you were to: Hang him in the square (using meathooks, preferably) Feed him Stimulants (this costs money, but not too much) Feed him antibiotics (also costs money… still nothing compared to jail mutilate him over, say, a period of 1-2 weeks… until he dies. Are there sense enhancers? He should be fed those, too. Now, that's a deterrent. You'd think twice before subjecting yourself to that kind of grief. The current system does not intimidate the criminal — that is it's basic problem… it spawns more activity by it's very nature — Look, the punishment is a joke — I'll do it! And I class drugs right in there with prostitution and Gambling. unless you are actually tied down, you always have a choice. And within the broad frameworks fo drugs (which absolutely includes alchohol, no matter what the idiots in gevernment say) you can go mild (pot, tobacco, coffee) medium (hash, alchohol, ups, downs) heavy (acid, peyote, normal coke) or nuclear (crack, heroin, PCP, religon <ducking>) Again, your choice. Prostitution also has those kind of ranges, as does gambling. –Ben–
#89066From: Marlene ZenkerOct 14, 1987 3:02 PM
Ben, the torture method has been used in the past history of this world and still goes on in places even now – what makes you think it's such a deterent? Most people who commit crimes of any nature don't really think they are going to get caught. I think that if the death penalty were truly enforced and right after conviction that would be sufficient. If potential criminals can be frightened enough by swift and absolute justice then I don't think it really matters by what means they are executed – just that they are. Also, re: needing or not needing police officers – the average person in not trained in sufficient means of self-defense and therefore does need them as a deterent, protection and to save tush in a pinch. Marlene
#89193From: Ben BlishOct 15, 1987 12:31 AM
Trouble is, they are rarely there when said pinch occurs. They are out gicing traffic tickets or filling out paperwork. And marlene, if it doesn't matter how death is administered, then torture the dorks — it's a small enough punishment anyway, considering they won't be around to suffer, like the victem's family, freinds, lovers, or the victim, in non-deadly crimes. –Ben–
#89252From: Marlene ZenkerOct 15, 1987 7:04 AM
Ben, that brings up another point – ticket quoatas. That is really the pits, and it's true that while they could be doing ANYTHING else they often are going out of their way to give out a ticket for quota reasons only. (I'll think about the torture thing some more) Marlene
#89153From: Rodney SomersteinOct 14, 1987 10:37 PM
Certain drugs, such as tobacco, which effect the quality of life of others besides the user, should be outlawed. Just because someone wants to smoke, I shouldn't have to put up with the smoke and damage to my health. As far as prostitution goes, the only prohibitions should be where someone is forced to do something against their will (in almost all cases, this would be the prostitute that was forced). Rodney Somerstein 73167,2165
#89210From: Ben BlishOct 15, 1987 1:06 AM
Any drug affects the quality of others life — some just do it more directly. tobacco should be legal in the home — like any other drug. Laws are not good… if you can avoid making them, you should. And I _hate_ tobacco, it's smells (before, during, and after), and it's effects. My father died of cancer induced by that particular habit -something I have not forgiven him for. Also a grandmother, and several freinds. Still, it;s their body… I certainly was affected, but not intentionally, and not in a direct fashion, and in no way that I cannot cope with. No laws, please. –Ben–
#89318From: Jim VentolaOct 15, 1987 6:30 PM
Ben– That deterrence argument is crap. Pickpockets were hanged most 'horribly in the 18the century and in public. Guess what one of the big crimes going on among the assembled crowd's was? And don't give me the old "Ah, but think of how many did NOT pick pockets after seing that." Neither you nor I will ever know, and I have too much respect for human flesh to want to destroy it on such idle speculation. Go play a video game. I will continue to believe that crime must involve a FREE choice and anyone who thinks that someone suffering from a brain tumor should be treated exactly as someone who is not is rejecting a moral tradition that I for one would hate to live in the alternative to. // Jim
#89152From: Rodney SomersteinOct 14, 1987 10:36 PM
Stoning is relatively cheap. You could just pick up rocks off of the roadside and no unions need be involved <grin>. Rodney Somerstein 73167,2165
#89250From: Marlene ZenkerOct 15, 1987 6:58 AM
Yeah, stoning – I had forgotten about that. <collecting rocks> GRIN
#89165From: Don Curtis/SYSOPOct 14, 1987 11:50 PM
Marlene, Prostitution in and of itself…isn't a "bad" crime….it's the associated violence and drugs that inevitably follow "street prostitution" that is a concern. Since most states aren't willing to legalize prostitution, then the street prostitution must be kept in check to keep the associated violence and drugs in check….along with AIDS. There are at least 2 known prostitutes in Denver that have confirmed cases of AIDS. I'm not sure what problems those places in Nevada have where prostitution is legal. Don
#89251From: Marlene ZenkerOct 15, 1987 7:02 AM
Don, why should it be considered a crime at any level? I understand the problems with it regarding AIDS – but under usual circumstances why does prostitution lead to any more drugs and violence then anything else? Again in this case – my feelings are get rid of the PIMPS who are basically slave masters. Marlene
#89306From: greg gossOct 15, 1987 5:56 PM
Prostitution in Canada (After Trudeau's promise to "keep the government out of the bedrooms of the nation") is not illegal. Being "pressing and persistent" is illegal, as is the rather loosely defined "living off the avails of prostitution". Vancouver has tried a number of approaches to ban street prostitution, but their only success has been to move them out of residential areas. Criminal activities are a FEDERAL matter in Canada, and cities have little say. The alderwoman who was behind the mid-70's closing of "The Penthouse" (on the "avails" charge) has since remarked that she wishes she had left well enough alone. Running prostitution out of thinly disguised night clubs at least keeps the juvies out of the market. ../greg