#Cops, Courts, Crooks
13 messages in this thread
Ben, I tend to agree stongly with your feelings though not necessarily with all
of your soloutions. I do agree that prosecuting people for gambling and
prostitution are a total waste of time and tax payer dollars. No one is forced
to gamble or goto a prostitute and if they choose to do so that's their
perogative. As to drugs, I don't totally agree with you. The answer isn't
arresting the kid who is stoned out of their mind on whatever it's rooting out
the dealers and organizations who bring drugs into this country.
On an emotional level I would love to see murderers and rapists etc. die slowly
in the most torturious way but practically speaking that isn't a great idea –
why not just bring back the death penalty everywhere and get rid of them ASAP.
There are cases where people are arrested, convicted and prosecute falsly – but
for God sakes in crimes that are incredibly brutal where there are witnesses
etc – get rid of them NOW. BTW, have you thought about the time, places and
tax payer dollars necessary to support public death penalties – I mean we'd
have to go back to crucifixion and then you would have to hire a union person
to build the cross, another union person to put in in the ground, another to
actually do the nailing
..
Marlene
Perhaps being in a union should be a major crime — as for executions, I'm sure
that the victims family(s) would be willing to donate the time and effort
required to bring the criminal to an appropriate end. And the reason one kills
the criminal in the most horrible way possible is for _deterrance_ something
the current system very rarely provides. "If I do this, they're gonna kill me
by: (1) lethal injection (sleep) (2) electric chair (not pleasant, but usually
quick) (3) hanging (quick, painless) gas chamber (quick, painless)… criminal
is not intimidated. He faces the possibility of a more painful death during the
commission of the crime (If he goes for me, I flipping well _gaurantee_ it!)
than he does if the system gets him. Now, if you were to: Hang him in the
square (using meathooks, preferably) Feed him Stimulants (this costs money, but
not too much) Feed him antibiotics (also costs money… still nothing compared
to jail mutilate him over, say, a period of 1-2 weeks… until he dies. Are
there sense enhancers? He should be fed those, too. Now, that's a deterrent.
You'd think twice before subjecting yourself to that kind of grief. The current
system does not intimidate the criminal — that is it's basic problem… it
spawns more activity by it's very nature — Look, the punishment is a joke —
I'll do it! And I class drugs right in there with prostitution and Gambling.
unless you are actually tied down, you always have a choice. And within the
broad frameworks fo drugs (which absolutely includes alchohol, no matter what
the idiots in gevernment say) you can go mild (pot, tobacco, coffee) medium
(hash, alchohol, ups, downs) heavy (acid, peyote, normal coke) or nuclear
(crack, heroin, PCP, religon <ducking>) Again, your choice. Prostitution also
has those kind of ranges, as does gambling. –Ben–
Ben, the torture method has been used in the past history of this world and
still goes on in places even now – what makes you think it's such a deterent?
Most people who commit crimes of any nature don't really think they are going
to get caught. I think that if the death penalty were truly enforced and right
after conviction that would be sufficient. If potential criminals can be
frightened enough by swift and absolute justice then I don't think it really
matters by what means they are executed – just that they are.
Also, re: needing or not needing police officers – the average person in not
trained in sufficient means of self-defense and therefore does need them as a
deterent, protection and to save
tush in a pinch.
Marlene
Trouble is, they are rarely there when said pinch occurs. They are out gicing
traffic tickets or filling out paperwork. And marlene, if it doesn't matter how
death is administered, then torture the dorks — it's a small enough punishment
anyway, considering they won't be around to suffer, like the victem's family,
freinds, lovers, or the victim, in non-deadly crimes. –Ben–
Ben, that brings up another point – ticket quoatas. That is really the pits,
and it's true that while they could be doing ANYTHING else they often are going
out of their way to give out a ticket for quota reasons only.
(I'll think about the torture thing some more)
Marlene
Certain drugs, such as tobacco, which effect the quality of life of others
besides the user, should be outlawed. Just because someone wants to smoke, I
shouldn't have to put up with the smoke and damage to my health.
As far as prostitution goes, the only prohibitions should be where someone is
forced to do something against their will (in almost all cases, this would be
the prostitute that was forced).
Rodney Somerstein 73167,2165
Any drug affects the quality of others life — some just do it more directly.
tobacco should be legal in the home — like any other drug. Laws are not
good… if you can avoid making them, you should. And I _hate_ tobacco, it's
smells (before, during, and after), and it's effects. My father died of cancer
induced by that particular habit -something I have not forgiven him for. Also a
grandmother, and several freinds. Still, it;s their body… I certainly was
affected, but not intentionally, and not in a direct fashion, and in no way
that I cannot cope with. No laws, please. –Ben–
Ben–
That deterrence argument is crap. Pickpockets were hanged most 'horribly in
the 18the century and in public. Guess what one of the big crimes going on
among the assembled crowd's was? And don't give me the old "Ah, but think of
how many did NOT pick pockets after seing that." Neither you nor I will ever
know, and I have too much respect for human flesh to want to destroy it on such
idle speculation. Go play a video game. I will continue to believe that crime
must involve a FREE choice and anyone who thinks that someone suffering from a
brain tumor should be treated exactly as someone who is not is rejecting a
moral tradition that I for one would hate to live in the alternative to.
// Jim
Stoning is relatively cheap. You could just pick up rocks off of the roadside
and no unions need be involved <grin>.
Rodney Somerstein 73167,2165
Yeah, stoning – I had forgotten about that. <collecting rocks> GRIN
Marlene,
Prostitution in and of itself…isn't a "bad" crime….it's the
associated violence and drugs that inevitably follow "street prostitution" that
is a concern. Since most states aren't willing to legalize prostitution, then
the street prostitution must be kept in check to keep the associated violence
and drugs in check….along with AIDS. There are at least 2 known prostitutes
in Denver that have confirmed cases of AIDS.
I'm not sure what problems those places in Nevada have where
prostitution is legal.
Don
Don, why should it be considered a crime at any level? I understand the
problems with it regarding AIDS – but under usual circumstances why does
prostitution lead to any more drugs and violence then anything else? Again in
this case – my feelings are get rid of the PIMPS who are basically slave
masters.
Marlene
Prostitution in Canada (After Trudeau's promise to "keep the government out of
the bedrooms of the nation") is not illegal. Being "pressing and persistent" is
illegal, as is the rather loosely defined "living off the avails of
prostitution". Vancouver has tried a number of approaches to ban street
prostitution, but their only success has been to move them out of residential
areas. Criminal activities are a FEDERAL matter in Canada, and cities have
little say.
The alderwoman who was behind the mid-70's closing of "The Penthouse" (on the
"avails" charge) has since remarked that she wishes she had left well enough
alone. Running prostitution out of thinly disguised night clubs at least keeps
the juvies out of the market.
../greg