#A2000 Rev 6.x bugs!!!
24 messages in this thread
ALL Revision 6.x owners:
I'm tired of the conflicting bull-BLEEP I am hearing about the A2000's
revision 6.x motherboards. I have one that is proving to be a real pain. I am
currently unable to add expansion peripherals to the computer making it utterly
useless. I am told by my dealer that there is nothing wrong with my computer,
but there is! It doesn't work. I have tried only one expansion product so far.
The 8 UP! ram expander from Microbotics would not work. Microbotics is blaming
CBM for the problems and I don't know who to believe. If you are suffering the
same problems please share your method of fixing the problem with me. I
certainly like to get this do nothing sitting on my desk to work. We are going
to try another brand of expansion to find out what happens with it. I will post
the results here within the next few weeks. If anyone has info on this problem
please share it with the rest of us! Thanks!
That's wierd, Ihave a rev 6.1 with a gvp 46 meg drive and 2058 board that works
fine. I've also installed in other 6.1 & 6.0 machines supra ram, and hard
disks with no hitch. Your machine or the board must be defective. Oh I also
just installed a Live! 2000 no problem.
Ben
The only bug I've heard about with 6.x boards is that 8 UP! won't work with
them. The problem I've heard is that the new motherboard memory puts a spike
on the bus that only the 8 UP! has trouble with. If anyone knows anything
else, I'd like to hear it.
— Mike Roth
6.x problem:
I've been told that a fix for Rev 6.x boards is available. It involves a
patch to the motherboard or in some cases total replacement of the board
itself. Contact your service center for info. I got this info indirectly from
the Service manager at CBM via someone in another department.
Well, I've been following a thread on the "other" network for some time about
this problem.
There is indeed a problem with :some:, note I said :some:, not all, revision
6. 0-6.1 motherboards. The problem can manifest itself with some rev.6.0-6.1
boards and not others. But, in almost all cases, the problem is associated with
just about -any- type of DMA activity on the bus, not just the 8-up! board.
C='s own cntroller cards have occasionally failed, as have the bridgeboards,
and several other 3rd party cards. After calling around the country to several
dealers, and manufacturers, they've all stated that they've had problems, some
more than others. Microbotics, however, does seem to be experiencing the
highest failure rates of anyone,(according to inside sources at CATS),
therefore C= has'nt -officially- announced there is a problem, and for the
moment, they seem to think this -may- be more of a Microbotics problem than a
Commodore problem.
Microbotics has sent West Chester several of there cards from their product
line for testing and nothing conclusive has resulted as of yet,(or at least
that I know of…) I took my rev.6.1 board to GVP and tried one of their
hardcards after experiencing problems with an HF2000/Qunatum hardcard, and
GVP's worked flawlessly, even withn 8-UP! ram eaxpansion in the next slot. It
turned out that I had a defective HardFrame, and my problem was not 6.1
related.
Two of the engineers at GVP informed me that they too have some problems, with
6.0-6.1 revisions, but only occasionally, and nowhere near the degree some
other manufacturers, most noticably Microbotics, have had. This -may- be due to
the fact that the GVP SCSI controller is not a fully DMA type controller,(It is
DMA up until the on-board 16k ram cache, but their card never takes control of
the DMA channel).
I've been talking to Joanne Dow about this problem, also, and she is
supposedly keeping close tabs on this as well. If I hear any more from her
about this, I'llpost it here.
Anyway, I've been running my 6.1 revision 2000 for 5 weeks now, with a GVP/
Quantum prodrive105s hardcard and an 8-UP! board, populated with 4 megs, with
-no- problems whatsoever. However, I ordered another 2000 from C= about 3 week
ago, and it took them about 2 weeks to ship it to them….they're only 45
minutes from West Chester. When it arrived, I discovered that it had a revision
6.2 motherboard in it. Maybe this revision is "fixed"????
Rick….a release of a bug fix for 6.x boards has been released by CBM.
Authorized service centers should have the information in hand anytime now. My
dealer cantacted CBM and was told the fix was in the newest release of the tech
notes. If anyone sees this document share the fix and symptoms with us. Iwas
told it involves a patch to fix the board or worst case a board swap. I'd
perfer a board swap at this point..as mine is really a BAD 6.0 computer!!! It
didn't work with 2 8 up!'s we tried, but did ok with a CBM 2 meg card..oh the
confusion.
David….I'm aware of the bug fix with 6.0-6.1. Supposedly it involveschange of
a certain brand 68000 chip. Seems C= was using Sinetics 68000 and are adviing
changing to a different 68000 chip. Apparently I was correct about this being
the hold up on delivery of my 6.2 rev. 2000, also.
Gee, I recommended changing the 68000 last week and was questioned for it. :-).
-Greg
Why would a wacky 68000 chip cause problems with expansion devices? My A2000
works fine without expansion. Also what or how do they describe the symptoms?
David,
The 68000 chip drives a lot of things fairly directly, and there isn't much
room for any flakiness in the chip. Slow signals, low drive capability, and so
on, are all causes for problems with expansion devices.
-larry
Not slow signals… Way too fast signals with 2 volt under and over shoot!
and 3.6 nanosecond rise/fall times.
There are manufacturing variations between different vendor's versions of THE
SAME CHIP! This is unfortunately not uncommon in the electronics industry. It
can be quite revealing to look at the actual published specs of a chip,
particularly the timing or loading tolerances. All too often engineers can get
spoiled by using a good manufacturer's chips and pushing them to the limit.
Then someone decides to switch to another vendor with a lower priced chip that
meets that published spec but may be far beyond what had been delivered by the
first manufacturer (in fact). I've seen this several times in cases where
research instruments are developed by a careful engineer in a lab environment,
then are turned over to someone else to produce at a lower cost – not even the
'lowest bidder' of legend. Sigh … Mike
David,
When I upgraded to an A2000 I bought an adaptor for my StarBoard
(Microbotics). I was running a 2090 controller for my hard drive. I have one
of the early 2000s (german). I tested the Starboard at my local computer store
and all was well. Microbotics had me send the card and adaptor to them. They
had just received a german 2000 and would check out the problem. According to
them the 2090 did not pass a signal that it should have. They modified the
adaptor board and sent it back. All I paid was shipping. I was quite happy
with their support and would tend to believe there side of the story.
Good Luck,
Steve
Steve,
They said the 2090 did not pass a signal it should have, yet they modified
their adapter. Hmmm… sounds like the problem was in their adapter. I am
running a ComSpec controller downstream form the 2909, and have no problems at
all.
-larry
David, most likely, as 8 up appears to be the product that is causing the
problem, Microbotics didn't follow the rules. I can't say that for a fact but
that seems to be a continuous problem.
— Ethan
Ethan:
Well who knows since CBM has released some form of repair for A2000's with
the Rev 6.x mother boards (at least for my 6.0) in the neewest tech notes going
out to service centers even as we speak. I'm told it involves a patch on the
board or at worst case a board swap. I will keep everyone informed after my
dealer receives the tech notes and looks at and repairs my A2000. I hope
something good comes of this! As for Microbotics…everyone I talk to agreees
that their products may not be perfect….but is anything? I'm told of a high
failure rate can anyone verify this?? David PS…OI'm looking forward to
getting my A2000 fixed!
I just heard from a very good source that the Rev 6 boards suffered because of
a bad lot of 68000 chips Commodore bought.
I understand all you need to do is replace it (free at authorized dealers) and
your Amiga will start making things possible again 🙂
-mark=
Well I should know soon about whether my Amiga will start making things
possible again. Stay tuned…
I also ran into a problem with my Microbotics 8-up board and a rev 6
motherboard. I have a tale too long to tell about certain dealers (great guys
in the service dept but bozos in the rest of the organization). Anyway I had
also talked to Microbotics and they knew about it at the time, but said that
they were waiting for CBM to ship them a rev 6 motherboard. When I suggested
that they might just try going to a dealer and buying one, they seemed to think
it was unreasonable. Their answer in July was that I would just have to
wait….. I hope to get a working memory board from the dealer RSN (I started
this at the beginning of JULY!). At least now I've got the tech dept at the
dealer handling it themselves, so I should actually have it in a couple of
days. Times to try men's souls….
Mike
I was so happy that my 8 UP! works that I'm buying an 80 meg scsi drive w/ a
kronos or Hardframe card. My a2000 works fine now.
I am very happy with my HardFrame controller, it's been working like a charm.
It looks like I've got things straightened out with my dealer [finally!!!]. It
will be nice to be operating with more memory again! Mike
Mike…since my a2000 is fixed I have decided to purchase a hard drive and
controller. I have decided to purchase the Kronos card for the A2000 and a 100
meg quantum hard drive. I REALLY need the hard disk since I'm beginning to see
a need for such an item. I have 3 megs and would like to add a 68020/30 card
soon.
Ethan, the 8-UP! board is defiitely NOT the cause of the 6.0-6.1
problem….BELIEVE me… -Rick