#Can you believe? – cont
27 messages in this thread
Please folks, post your comments to the newsletter. I would like to read
your thoughts/responses before I post mine.
-mark=
It seems to me that Brown-Wagh has found a way to make money just like the
other PC software houses do, and they intend to do it. The AMiga does not
fit into their plans, so they don't mention it.
Betty
Betty:
Hi again. It's been a while since we last spoke. I didn't mention the
Amiga in my article because Sound Blaster and Ask*Me are PC products. I
didn't feel mentioning the Amiga would benefit the article.
Steve
Steve,
Actually you did mention the Amiga…
"… and colorful animated figures streaking across the screen, many PC
games now outclass those on Macintosh, Atari, Amiga and Ninetendo."
Shades of BYTE if you ask me.
Classing the Amiga with game systems (espeically the Ninetendo comment),
nice touch.
-mark=
Have you seen those PC games? VGA screens give 256 colors from an immense
palette at one time, in 320 x 200 pixels. Sure, the animation
frames-per-second speed might not be comparable, but the pictures – on a
non-NTSC, non-interlaced screen – sure do look good. There's probably more
VGA boards than Amigas. I don't know if there are any 24-bit games for the
Mac yet; I'm sure they're in development and will be shipped on CD ROM. 🙂
Yes I have seen these fine games. Static images are indeed impressive on a
VGA display. Whoa, wait a second!! If a PC can be the multimedia
standard system should they not be able to do animation with a reasonable
frame rate? Perhaps Bill Gates can take a few minutes and explain it to
the game manufactures. "OS/2 and Windows are the solution for high speed
animations…", there that should fix it. Announce it, it exists!
-mark=
They have no standard for comparison… except perhaps TV. 🙂 For years,
we Amigaphiles had to endure the endless "but who needs to do more than one
thing at once", in reference to the uselessness of multitasking. Now they
think they've got it in Windows and Multifinder… but again, they've yet
to realize the difference between preemptive and non-preeemptive
multitasking, because they had no standard of comparison. When Microsoft or
Apple makes an announcement, the lemmings will follow, and declare it all
an Important Step Forward.
I agree with that. I really do.
If I read another article about "Windows 3.0" and how Microsoft had been
waiting for the "Right" time to introduce "Multitasking" I think I will
puke.
I happen to think that Windows 3.0 is a super product and it finally gives
the PC a really decent solution for Multitasking.
However I think I would rather read an article about how it does what it
does, not how multitasking was invented by Microsoft.
-mark=
You have my best wishes in your new products, Steve. Even if they are not
for Amiga. 🙂
Betty
Sounds like Steve Wagh & Co. have found a way to make a lot of money. I
wish them success in their endeavo(u)r.
Victor A. Wagner, Jr.
Thanks Vic, and best wishes to you too (sincerely).
Steve
Before you flame, consider that there hasn't been a single product for the
Amiga, I would say, that consistently ships 10,000 units a month. And why
can't the PC market get sound, too? Heck, it's a good month for CBM if they
can move that many Amigas a month.
You're right about that John. I know we've shipped more Sound Blasters
here in the US than Amigas, this year. (well, I don't know for sure, but
I'd guess so anyway) Now it looks like video products are hitting the PC
market in a big way. The Amiga has been ahead of the market for years, but
now it seems that everyone is catching up.
It reminds me of 1983 when I joined VisiCorp to launch VisiOn, the
windowing application environment. People screamed when we said it
required a hard disk, 512K RAM, a graphics display and a mouse. They felt
we were asking too much (afterall, Lotus 1-2-3 only needed a floppy and
128K)! We were just a little ahead of the game.
Steve
John,
Perhaps you and I are not going to cross swords this time! 🙂
Actually I am very pleased that Brown-Wagh has a exciting and good selling
product for the PC. I have seen the SOUND BLASTER in action and I am
extremely impressed.
Perhaps all that ruffled my feathers was all the talk about Multimedia,
Bill Gates and the like, and then having this thing sent to a Amiga dealer.
We were not the only Amiga dealer to get this, in fact, all of
Brown-Wagh's dealers got it. The store owner and I felt that not only had
Brown-Wagh decided to "leave" the Amiga market, but they intended to rub
our noses in the one shiney point on the Amiga cap.
Now I wish them all the best with their products, and certainly understand
"good marketing hype" but the timing was less than impressive.
-mark=
I'm sure you can imagine why I expected you to flame about this; after all,
people don't type in newsletters unless they're motivated to do so…
Rub noses? If money and sales are what irked or impressed you, there's
plenty of other areas to worry about… maybe you should ask Steve about
the relative sales (PC vs. Amiga) of some of their other products. There
might be one or two companies in the Amiga market who grossed more than a
million in a year. There are dozens of 50 million companies in the PC
market, maybe hundreds. Think of those dollars as seconds; a million
seconds is eleven and a half days. It's the difference between a
week-and-a-half and a year-and-a-half. That might help you visualize the
size of the Amiga pond.
John,
I really do understand your point, consider it taken. Really.
However this is not a recent discovery is it? The numbers of Amiga
computers vs. the number of PCs in the world is a fact that *any* company
should know *prior* to entering a market.
Is it really a "just" reason to one day proclaim "Gosh, we weren't aware
that there were more PCs…"
Why can't it simply be left at "we want a larger market" and not have the
extra line "the amiga market will never support…"
That's been my *entire* point throughout this discussion.
I typed the newsletter in so that all would *know* and decide for
themselves their feelings about Brown-Wagh. I was not sure which way the
ball would bounce.
I like to generate interesting discussion 🙂
-mark=
No, it's not a recent discovery, but I'd say that dozens of Amiga companies
– Brown-Wagh included, perhaps – have taken several years for it to settle
into their brain and understand it in terms of the bottom line. Also, I
don't think many Amiga *users* realize it. Whenever someone begs for a
certain piece or class of software that doesn't exist on the Amiga, but
does exist on their office PC, and therefore says the Amiga Will Really
Take Off If We Just Have XXX, then I say to myself, there goes another one
who doesn't realize this fact.
Mark:
I apologize for sending you the bulletin. About 95% of our "Amiga" dealers
are also "PClone" dealers. They are a prime prospect for our PC multimedia
products because they understand video, graphics, sound, and the like.
So as not to offend you next time, I'll have someone do a better filter on
our dealer list. BTW, what is the name of your store?
I don't think I misaligned the Amiga when I put them in this list as a
great game machine. Let's be serious, the most used application on the
Amiga is "entertainment". Instead of apologizing for that, I think CBM
should have been taking more advantage of the Amiga's superiority in games,
instead of trying to forcefeed it as a "business" machine.
Steve
Don't apologize for sending us the bulletin (the store is Video Computer
Retailers in Chesepeake, VA), in fact I really should thank you as you have
finally proven my point.
I would think that Brown-Wagh would send out informational type of
newsletters and not editorial commentary. However, it is your business.
You have read the constant banter about how Byte magazine constantly
degrades the amiga by comparing it to game machines etc. You, should at
least have a tad of respect for the machine and the energies that have been
put forth. Your developer "friends" might appreicate a kind word or two.
After all they have spent a lot of dollars supporting this market.
You claim respect for the Amiga and its developers here, you claim that
you really regret your decision to become more IBM dominant, and yet you
send a newsletter that reads like a worn out Byte article from Jerry
himself.
You could have done more if you had simply not mentioned the amiga in any
way, or at least acknowledged its achievements in multimedia, and how your
product out-shined the Amiga multimedia solutions.
However, I do understand that you must cater to your market and that means
(I guess) adoption of the blinders.
BTW, don't dismiss me as just another Amiga zealot out to right the wrongs
for Commodore and the free world. I am your competition 🙂
I will no longer take you to task on this issue. I believe my case is
made.
Simply put, you can't have your cake and eat it too.
-mark=
Gee, I *knew* you had a bone to pick. You recommend that companies refrain
from "editorial" material and stick to "informational" instead? Reminds me
of a joke: If Commodore bought out Col. Sanders, they'd advertise the
product as "hot, dead chicken". You can't be serious. Tell me, is B-W's
Sound Blaster board less than, equal to, or better than the Amiga's sound
abilities? If it's better, then why complain that he said so? Should he
have mentioned the achievements of all computers, or just the Amiga's?
John,
Go back and re-read the newsletter. It did not even really compare the
sound ability to the Amiga's. It compared the fact that with the addition
of a sound board the PC was beginning to emerge as the "Entertainment"
system. The article compared PC games to Amiga games.
Are you telling me that you accept this newsletter as "fact", and "facts"
that should go unchallenged? Is your message "he's right ya know"?
Truly I did not intend to 'pick bones' with him until I saw his message to
me. Attempting to dismiss me as yet another Amiga zealot.
Anyway, I am satisfied. I will let it go after this posting.
-mark=
No Mark, of course I don't dismiss you as "just another Amiga zealot". But
I do think you're over-reacting to my newsletter. In the 2 page editorial,
I ha had one sentence that mentioned Amiga – "with Sound Blaster… many
games now outclass those on Macintosh, Atari, Amiga, and Nintendo."
I didn't say anything derogatory about the Amiga, the Amiga developers, or
the Amiga market. I didn't compare Amiga multimedia and multitasking to
the IBM, it wasn't important in the article.
I also don't feel the need to apologize for marketing IBM products, nor do
I feel like a traitor to Amigaland. Afterall, we were marketeers of IBM
products long before we ventured into the land of CBM. We choose products
that are developed by someone else, and sell them to major distributors.
We must find products that are in demand by thousands of users and
thirty-or-so distributors. In today's market, our distributors are not
carrying the Amiga line, the new-user market is relatively small, and the
selection of new Amiga products is slim. Today, therefore, we emphasize
IBM products. Tomorrow, who knows? It depends on the market.
Too bad that you don't also market IBM products. I would be interested in
your comparison of Amiga, AmigaVision, etc. to Sound Blaster and ASK*ME.
Steve
Steve-
In your opinion, what has kept NewTek afloat all the while the Toaster
was in development? I mean, doesn't everyone that wanted one already have
a Digiview? All those full-page color ads, etc…must've gotten some
investor in on the deal.
Tim
Tim:
Boy, that's a good one. I suspect they've done well in Europe. I know
their overhead is relatively low in the Midwest, but those ads do cost a
bit. I have not heard of any investor, but I don't doubt they've been
approached.
I hope they clean up with the Toaster. That's got to be the longest
"delayed delivery" in history. I've liked and respected the NewTek folks,
so I wish them the best.
Steve
Mark:
Thank you for retyping the BW newsletter for the folks here. I believe my
article backs up everything I've said here lately. With our PC multimedia
products, we've shown that market something that has been available on the
Amiga for years. The PC users go crazy over it. CBM has never been able
to convince enough prospective buyers that the Amiga is the **only** system
that do all that good stuff. Now the features are available elsewhere, and
there is a tremendous install base to work with.
Steve
All Amiga owners should, therefore, consider themselves 'seers
extrodinaire' since they saw multimedia comming years away. Now, how could
CBM capitalize on the 'explosion' just around the corner? sounded like that
newsletter and Mr. Gates were describing the CBM CDTV unit and AmigaVision.
But we must remember that Mr. Gates is the same guy who said that you can't
multitask in less than 2 megs even after his company played a significant
role in developing AmigaBasic. You know, its really a cosmic approach to
business – if you ignore a machine, it in effect doesn't exist!
Maybe CBM should wack a few "look and feel" suits on some of the big guys
not so much with the thought of winning, but of getting the publicity for
the Amiga… When all else fails, try the Mouse that Roared approach.
wmc
Absolutely love it, and your support is appreciated.
You *do* understand the point I am making!
I thought I was mouse that was roaring 🙂
-mark=