CompuServe Thread

#Pagestream vs Pro Page

21 messages in this thread
#36436From: Douglas BullardOct 6, 1991 12:53 AM
I want to buy a DTP package, and it seems to be a draw between Pagestream and Professional Page. Browsing through the library, Pagestream seems to have a LOT of fonts and goodies, while PPage has none. Anybody have some sage advice or strong feelings about either program? I'm leaning towards Pagestream, but PPage has an offer for a freebie copy of Professional Draw if I buy that…. Any help, opinions, gossip, hearsay, invective, is quite welcome. Douglas Bullard
#36439From: Black Belt SystemsOct 6, 1991 2:08 AM
We have both; we like PageStream better. Also, it saves IFF; if you're ever going to get a FAX system, you need that… don't even think about PP if FAX is in your future. I like TeX better than *both* of them, but it's an extremely complex system to deal with. –Ben
#36494From: Douglas BullardOct 6, 1991 5:54 PM
Thanks for the info, Ben. I played with the demo of TeX, but it seemed to be a little too much for me… Douglas Bullard
#36504From: Black Belt SystemsOct 6, 1991 8:13 PM
Yep – it's a toughie all right – strictly a power users tool. But the RESULTS! <grin> I can't live without it, now. ;^)) For single pages, I still prefer PageStream; but if there are more than one page – then it's gotta be TeX; (Well, LaTeX). –Ben
#36774From: Roger F. BeckerOct 9, 1991 10:56 AM
Ben: How can you say don't even think about Professional Page if fax is in your future? I've been using PPage with AE SendFax for months with excellent results. And since PPage will create a separate outline font cache for each resolution you use (200 x 200 in fax), recipients of my faxes are still scratching their heads wondering why my faxes look so GOOD. Roger
#36874From: BILL LEACHOct 10, 1991 10:24 AM
Roger; If you have ClickFax then PGS will do the same thing for you. -bill – via Whap!
#36468From: Betty Clay/SYSOPOct 6, 1991 1:20 PM
Doug, PageStream does have many happy users and a lot of support here. ProPage has been used by several publishers of Amiga magazines – and I don't know of any who have used PageStream. It is my impression (from reading messages here for a very long time) that Pagestream is easier to learn and that it is great for putting out small to medium size jobs. ProPage, I think from my reading, is more powerful, has a steeper learning curve, and is excellent for doing medium to heavy-duty kinds of things. Did you know that any bitmap font can be loaded into ProDraw and changed into an outline font that ProPage can use? And there are thousands of bitmapped fonts around. I saw a package of 600 of them priced at $22 at my dealer's yesterday. Betty
#36485From: Soft-Logik Tech SupportOct 6, 1991 3:19 PM
Actually on the Atari side, Atari Explorer is published with PageStream, I think, as is ST Informer, a large circulation tabloid. On the Amiga side, there may soon be a PageStream laid out publication. SL
#36495From: Douglas BullardOct 6, 1991 5:55 PM
Thanks for the info, Betty.
#36527From: Luis VasquezOct 7, 1991 1:06 AM
Betty, Plese explain me how to do this. I mean, how to change a bitmap font into an outline font? Thanks, Luis
#36563From: Betty Clay/SYSOPOct 7, 1991 2:38 PM
Luis, I have not done this myself, because I don't have ProDraw. However, my dealer told me only last Saturday that I could load bitmaps into ProDraw, have ProDraw outline them, and then change them into fonts. I wish I knew more of the details, but I'll have to get a copy of ProDraw and try it out before I can explain it. In other words, what I know right now is hearsay, not experience. Betty
#36626From: Gary BrusanowskiOct 8, 1991 12:46 AM
Betty: As mentioned in another thread reply, PDraw does not create outline fonts from bitmap fonts. The "Trace" program will convert IFF pics into PDraw clips, but not fonts (although our MIoutline utility will create PDraw fonts! plug, plug, plug…:) BTW, since I've got your ear… I had a call from a customer today who was using our MIfont program to convert rather HUGE bitmap fonts over from the Mac (for video work) and was having problems with some of them. I seem to recall a thread a while back that mentioned that there is a size limit on an Amiga bitmap font, having to do with point size vs. # of characters (I think the chap in question is trying to use a 200 pt. font with a full character set, which would undoubtedly over-run the size limitation). Do you have any idea what this limitation works out to? Is there simply a set file size limit, or perhaps a formula that one could work out (like 50 characters at 100 pt. = blahblahblah)? Any help would be appreciated. Gary – Mirror Image Prod. (416) 495-7469, via WHAP!
#36653From: Betty Clay/SYSOPOct 8, 1991 1:51 PM
Gary, Thanks for clearing that up. My dealer was wrong, then – and she usually knows whereof she speaks, so I'll pass the info along to her. Guess I need to get your program, eh? But does MIOutline create ProPage fonts from bitmapped fonts? I do remember the discussion about maximum fonts sizes, but that was not something I looked into closely when I was working on the font structures. I know that Calligrapher (remember that one?) said that any font over 30 points would probably require more than 512K of memory, and the maximum sizes they allowed were 160 high by 256 wide. Since bitmapped fonts are just a use of the Amiga graphics system, I suspect that the amount of chip ram available creates the limit on size, but I've not worked this out – it's only a hunch. Betty
#36701From: Gary BrusanowskiOct 8, 1991 9:10 PM
Betty: Nope, MIoutline doesn't convert bitmap fonts into outlines; the results would be horrible I would say. Or did you mean CG fonts from bitmaps (in any case, that would be horrible too 🙂 John has answered the big bitmap problem, though it's been months since I was wading around in the Amiga bitmap file format, so I'll just have to take his word for it. Thanks anyway. Gary – Mirror Image Prod. (416) 495-7469, via WHAP!
#36655From: SyndesisOct 8, 1991 1:56 PM
You're been staring this one in the face for weeks, Gary. 🙂 In the header of a bitmap font, there's an offset – a USHORT – that marks where the character's bitmap begins. Big fonts with a reasonable (more than A-Z or even 0-9 in some cases) will overflow that 64K offset. It's a big failure in Amiga bitmap fonts. I'm not sure how or even if AmigaDOS 2.0 fonts address this, maybe they get around it by keeping each raster in some other kind of data structure. I doubt they're using Amiga font file format.
#36702From: Gary BrusanowskiOct 8, 1991 9:10 PM
John: Are you refering to the modulo, which says how long each row in the bitmap strike is? Or an offset to char tables or what? It's been awhile and I can't remember exactly how the bitmap header's put together. Gary – Mirror Image Prod. (416) 495-7469, via WHAP!
#36672From: Mike ToddOct 8, 1991 6:52 PM
Betty There is certainly no way that ProDraw can convert bitmapped fonts to outline fonts … it cannot use bitmapped fonts itself (since it is a stuctured drawing package), nor can it create fonts. There is, as far as I am aware, no program that will convert a bitmapped font to an outline font. It _could_ be done if the bitmapped font were big enough (to allow a TRACE-type function to be performed with a measure of accuracy), but it would never be particularly satisfactory. There _is_ a TRACE utility that will turn an IFF image into a structured clip for use within ProDraw and ProPage … and CreateFont which will turn a GoldDisk CompuGraphic font into a bitmap, PostScript or ProDraw font. Mike (Whapping from the UK)
#37303From: Andre PageOct 14, 1991 11:27 PM
Fontographer on that "other computer" will auto trace a bit map and make a font character out of it. But like Gary said, they aren't too pretty and need a lot of touchup. Plus you cannot load an entire font at once, just individual characters by cut and paste. / / //ANDRE
#37315From: Mike ToddOct 15, 1991 4:14 AM
This is certainly possible on the Amiga too … I've done it a few times. You generate a character on screen using whatever means you'd normally use (maybe in ProPage with a CG font, or PStream or whatever) … grab the image using SNAP or the like … use Gold Disk's TRACE to convert to a clip … and paste the clip.
#36579From: Joe MaulucciOct 7, 1991 7:37 PM
Luis, I have ProDraw, through not a regular user (I just started getting into DeskTOP Publishing). Anyway, there is a utility called "Trace" that will outline bitmapped graphics via "Autotracing" — mathematically defined bezier curves and lines. The results are less jaggies and some fine tuning is required with ProDRAW. It does not support HAM and there is no mention of turning these into fonts. – Joe – via Whap! from the WEST SIDE – Buffalo, NY
#36546From: Gary BrusanowskiOct 7, 1991 8:49 AM
Douglas: You can get access to any Mac PostScript font with MIfont, our font conversion package for Professional Page. As well, our program MIoutline will convert any PostScript Type 1 font into a PDraw outline font (see Oct/91 Amazing Computer new Products column). Gary – Mirror Image Prod. (416) 495-7469, via WHAP!