#Upgrade
20 messages in this thread
I would like to hold onto my disk. The postal service has a very bad habit
of losing things. If I mail you people my disk, and the Postal Service
pulls one of it's famous disappearing acts (so far this year they have lost
10 pieces of mail to me and 5 picese of mail from me) how can I then
upgrade?? Can I just send in a photo copy of the disk?? Surely this must
be good enough for you, it's good enough for novell..
Thanks for producing such an excellent product..
Alan
Russell
Alan,
Out of all the disks that New Horizons and Central Coast have been sent, we
only have had one customer report that his disks were lost in the mail. Of
course there could have been more that have gone un-reported, but you would
think that most people would get curious as to why it was taking so long
for the upgrade.
Many people just put the disks in a regular envelope when they send them to
us. We mail them back in a package.
If you are worried about the disk in the mail then you could send it by
certified mail or have the package insured.
Mark
New Horizons Software, Inc.
Why is New Horizons being soo unresponive to its customers??
Nothing personal, maybe you don't make the policies, but your upgrade
requests are just a little out of the ordinary.
Your upgrade policies will only cement the fact that the next package I buy
will not be a New Horizons Software package..
— Alan Russell
Alan,
I don't see why you think sending in the original disk is 'out of the
ordinary'. It certainly is a 'sure' way of establish ownership of the
program in question.
And beats a dongle, a code card, or any number of other methods I could
think of to assure "one sale, one owner."
Mike
Why isnt a Photocopy of the serialized disc a 'SURE' way?? Seems to me,
you put the serial number into a DATA BASE. Now, when you get a second
copy with the same DISK Serial Number, you know you have a illigetimet
copy..
This is so simple even a company like Novell can understand it.
And they have not answered my question as to what happens when the disk
gets lost by the post office?? Maybe you have good mail service in (where
ever you are) but in ST. Louis mail is lost quite freqently. The post of
fails to deliver 1 in 10 of my letters, bills, ect.
How come so many other companies, in other computer markets, can handel
a simple upgrade. And yet, our amiga developers, still revert to non disk
installable software, and stuipid upgrade schemes? Maybe one reason why
the Amiga isnt taken seriously is because our vendors are not upto snuff??
–Alan
From Alan:
>Why isnt a Photocopy of the serialized disc a 'SURE' way??
Because you could have photocopied the disk before selling it to another
person.
Mark
New Horizons Software, Inc.
Alan,
Because "when I get a second with the same DISK serial number…" I know
that ONE is an illegitimate copy. Not neccessarily the 2nd one I receive
either.
Because someone could have very easily made a Photocopy (sic) of the
serialized disk BEFORE they sold it.
I haven't answered your question about what happens when the disk gets
lost by the Post Office because I haven't seen it before. My company has
had a product out since February 1986 (for the Amiga, non-entertainment).
We have been supplying upgrades at US$5.00 each since we started. We
_require_ the original disk to be sent in (I think we were the 1st company
to so do; certainly the 1st Amiga company) because we felt it was the
surest way to determine ownership. To the best of my knowledge the P.O.
has lost none. If your Post Office is so poor, nuke it (two kilotons is
generally adequate). OTOH, I wouldn't bet more than a nickel that we've
received all the registration cards that were sent.
An additional reason we ask for the original disk is we can determine
exactly which revision you have. If you inadvertently send in the latest
revision (this has happened more than once), we call you back and give you
the option of returning your disk, tearing up your check, or holding them
until an upgrade DOES exist.
If you feel our policies are 'not upto snuff', then don't buy our
products.
PLEASE NOTE THAT I DO NOT WORK FOR NEW HORIZONS and that any policy
statements you may have inferred apply ONLY to Metadigm, Inc.
Thank you for your candor.
And yes, I guess I can now avoid Metadigm software, although I don't even
know what your products are.
Good Day.
-Alan
I'll second that. I mentioned one customer of ours who called a few
weeks ago, said "he just bought InterChange at the store" and wanted
an upgrade, he sent a check and his disk serial number, which turned
out to be registered to someone else in his town. We send a letter to
him, reminding him of this. He calls back, stating he bought it from
this guy. He other guy is "too busy" to send us a letter stating he
sold his copy; meanwhile, this guy still wants his upgrade. Just how
nasty should we be?
Why be nasty at all?
Seems to me that a lot of companies price upgrades very close to what must
be their wholesale price for the program itself. Since you're selling it
direct and probably charge S&H (another profit opportunity), doesn't an
upgrade come close to the revenue/profit generated by a normal sale to a
distributor? The customer saves the distributor/dealer markups and you get
roughly the same marginal revenue as from a new sale.
In which case, even a pirate upgrade is profitable, no? In which case, two
upgrades even off one original sale is twice as profitable, no?
BTW, the above does not apply to New Horizons – their upgrades are
incredibly cheap – maybe TOO cheap. Nevertheless, I still don't want to
mail in the disk. 🙂
NO, our upgrade prices don't come close to our wholesale price of the
program!!!! You seriously think that software wholesales for US$5.00??
Get serious!
Hmmm… Maybe you ought to buff up the upgrade until it IS, or at
least until you can claim it is worth more. 🙂
Seriously, excepting the super cheap upgrades ike yours, New
Horizons, W. Hawes, etc. don't you think that's what the other guys
do? A Borland "suit" said they clock *everything* to be profitable
as a discrete event; thus, they realy don't care whether an upgrade
is legitimate or not. They make money in every case and try never to
put an obstacle in the way of somebody giving them money. Rob
This upgrade is a flat $20, we pick up the shipping. Raw parts cost
is about $3. Time? How much should I "get" per hour? This includes
a new manual and an updated program. At $20, I doubt it's really
worth it to us. If you're a step ahead of me, yes, we only get about
$20 a copy for InterChange, from a distributor. They order dozens at
a time; meanwhile, we've already blown our profit margin by simply
calling this possible pirate on the phone, not to mention time wasted
writing a letter, etc.
I can't seem to answer without sounding patronizing and pendantic. You're
the successful developer, not me. So I'll shut up after one observation.
Marginal revenue is the difference between the quick and the dead. If your
upgrade revenue is the same as your sale revenue, take the guy's $20.
Forget the phonecalls and letters; take the cash and count him a valued new
customer.
Successful developer? Are there really any in the Amiga market? 🙂 I'm
seriously considering your twist on this; I think you've got a point here
someplace… 'If someone wants to send us $20, we should not stand in
their way.' After all, we've been sphinctered about this because we wanted
to prevent piracy, but instead, you're right, we're avoiding a sale. One
crucial element is that the person isn't a pirate, afte all, they're
offering to pay for something. If they just wanted it, maybe they'd steal
it, but instead they're trying a second illegal and dishonest tactic.
I've often thought about a "pirate amnesty" offer. I don't know if you
caught my previous explanation of this, but at Syndesis, we have a prime
example of Amiga piracy. We've officially sold more add-ons (in the form
of the Turbo Silver Module Pack, in specific) than the sum total of
InterChange and InterFont. In other words, Amiga pirates won't pay for
products that retail for $50 or $120, but will buy an add-on for $30.
Just last night, I was talking with a friend who regularly snaps up the
Borland C update of the month. He's going broke at it, and he wanted to
know my thoughts on whether it would be ethical for him to sell the old
versions of Borland C. When he gets an update, he gets a complete new set
of docs, etc. with a new serial number.
I'm sure that a more liberal update program for pirates would offend
dealers and distributors, but who cares. 🙂
Alan,
Yeah, we know sending a disk back is a pain, but a minor one. I've had
much more severe pains in the wordpro department.
My first wordpro was something called LPDwriter. Not a bad program, but
keydisk protected. This was a major pain!! I lived with it for while
because I bought it for $5 out of a bargain section.
However; I bought ProWrite after LPD sent me a letter asking for more
than the price of ProWrite for a semi-non-protected version (keyword, I
think). The original disk return policy isn't so bad.
BTW, are you upgrading to DpaintIV? EA has the same policy. If you
stick to this attitude, you are going to miss out on a superior paint
product, as well as New Horizon's great wordpro…
Jonathan
Jonathan – from Albany, NY, via whap!
Such is life, I will go back to word perfect.
Maybe when amiga developers GROW up the market will also..
Alan,
I can think of a lot of worse reasons to leave a developer than sending in
a disk for upgrades. New Horizons is one of the most responsive Amiga
companies I've dealt with, and adds good features with each upgrade (though
they only come less than once a year).
Face it, the Amiga market hasn't created such huge developers with such
large volume (as IBM/MAC) that they can afford to send free upgrades and
800 numbers. Maybe we'll get there soon, if people keep buying software.
Unless a developer uses some wierd copy protection scheme or provides poor
manual or telephone support, I would think you'd buy a package for its
features and how well it does the job for you. It's your decision,
however.
*** jd
Allen,
When I have to return a disk I send it with a return receipt and
insurance for full retail price. It DOES cost more but you get a little
piece of mind. (Yes, I hate sending disks back too!)