#CDTV, CD-I etc.
21 messages in this thread
Don, Thom & lurkers,
TTSI does not use full motion video. We used a simple slide show for all
the animation series images. The trick is to get full screen images as fast
as possible. It is not possible to go very fast without extra compression,
etc. The current solution is quite effective for the most part (i.e. don –
the avg user- is happy with it)
Sometime next year, there will be a new release that uses CD-XL to increase
the speed of playback w/sound. Maybe.
Jerry Isdale.
p.s. those neat ham images are accessible from the desktop. look in the
Images subdirectories for still images and Animations directory for anims.
Jerry,
Whatever trick you use to get those effects it's really impressive.
They knocked the socks off the IBM crowd at my user group. In fact the
Amiga people were even impressed.
I don't want to condemn full motion video just yet until I see some
applications, but I just don't see how important it really is on a little
compact disk. You're only going to have limited space for the videos
anyway & besides if you want full motion video get a laser disk. Just my
humble opinion.
———————————————-Don- via Whap!
Most of the Full Motion Video i've seen demo'd for CDROM is either in
little windows or low quality or both. I cant see putting a 1/4 or 1/8th
screen window up for video. People buy 21 inch TV's so they dont have to
sit 3ft away to see it. If you put up a little itty bitty window, they will
feel ripped off. Better to give them the full screen, good quality, slower
frame rate (IMHO).
Jerry
Jerry,
I repeat what I've said on this subject. I think most of those
pushing for Full Motion Video have not seen the tremendous animations done
by Xiphias. Every animation on the Time Table Science disk is well done
with greater effect than I could imagine from full motion video. I could
mention every animation on the disk but I'd rather others on this board see
the disk & explore for themselves. It really is a lot of fun and
educational to boot.
———————————————-Don- via Whap!
Have you explored the end of the Keywords list?
There is a keyword for each of the "effects".
Each story that has an effect has a keyword for that effect.
The effects keywords are at the end of the keyword list.
Selecting one will show you all articles with that effect.
We added this to make testing easier, but you can use it to shorten the
your searches for animations, etc.
-Jerry
Jerry,
Yes, I did discover this feature unfortunately after I gave a demo
at my user group. It would have made the demo much easier. I felt bad for
the guy on the table next to me demoing some IBM stuff on a monochrome
monitor. He wasn't getting much attention. In fact, I noticed that even
his attention was frequently diverted.
Interesting story was told to me at that meeting by a member who
manages a computer store that is part of a large eastern US chain. They
called CBM in to sell them on some hardware. What does the CBM rep bring
but a CDTV unit to demo & he didn't even do a good job of showing THAT!!
Shouldn't this type of store be getting professional pitches for the A3000
and department & electronic/appliance stores getting the pitches for CDTV?
I don't think CBM is capable of handling the complexities of their line of
products. It's a shame because I think they have some great products that
just will not get the proper exposure.
———————————————-Don- via Whap!
Jerry, as I understand it FMV isn't avail yet, and will need to wait for
1992 (and beyond). Could that be the reason that all you're seeing so far
is 1/4 screen and such animation?
The Phillips literature clearly says that it if FMV-capable (ie has some
sort of decoder chip built in), so that when FMV comes out it will support
it. (question: how can they build in a chipset for FMV when the format
isn't set in stone yet??)
Isn't CDXL the CDTV equivalent of 1/3 screen video (or animation, I guess)?
BTW, I want to thank you for your time here, answering questions about your
products and for giving me some 'inside' knowlege of CD-I/CDTV developement
and such. You've been very helpful; it's appreciated.
–jp–seattle–
John, I haven't seen the literature yet, but someone else stated it says
"full screen full motion prepared". Which sounds like one of those
translated manuals 🙂 It means even the original players can be upgraded
internally (slot?) when the final FMV chipset is ready.
But yeah, it's worded very badly. Wanna bet a marketing type wrote it?
Yeah, the literature says, "Full motion full screen prepared based on MPEG
specifications".
By the way, the Phillips CD-I uses the M68070 processor; what's different
between the 68000 and the 68070?
It also says that it 'plays all 3" and 5" CD-audio discs, CD+Graphics discs
and visuals, Photo CD discs, and CD ROM-X-A "bridge" discs." So, it must
already be capable of playing the Kodak Photo-CD? (as soon as anyone gets
them) What the heck is a CD ROM-X-A "bridge" disc???
–jp–seattle–
JP –
Spec sheet. Should be changed; too confusing. That's like saying a
computer's "harddisk prepared." Meaning one can be added, but isn't
included as stock.
68070. It's a CMOS Signetics software-compatible clone of the 68000. It
also has a serial port, dual DMA channels, a timer and a coupla counters,
and an interprocessor I2C bus (see Sept 91 Embedded Systems Programming
magazine). Oh, and an MMU (not used in this case).
CDROM-XA. Jerry Isdale can no doubt tell you more. The "XA" stands for
"eXtended Architecture." Sony, Philips and Microsoft first demo'd it in
1988 on a PC. The basic idea is to extend CDROM with a few graphics, and
CD-I interleaved compressed audio, standards… to help form a "bridge"
between CDROM and CD-I. So you sometimes hear them referred to as "bridge
discs." The Nintendo discs will be done as CDROM-XA.
regards – kevin
I'm not sure what they mean by CD-XA "bridge" disks. CD-XA is a standard
and there are drives that play it now. It is basically a way to play
interleaved CD-DA sound (digital audio) out the audio jacks while
transfering data to the computer. The sound/data tracks are interleaved and
some sound can be buffered in memory on the player so audio is continious
while the disk reads data. (there are multiple buffers in the device hw).
-jerry
Thanks. Then I guess that Commodore could advertise the Amiga as 'CDTV
prepared' (cause it will run CDTV software with the add-on hardware), CDTV
as 'Amiga prepared' (cause it will run amiga software with add-on
hardware), the Amiga as '1.4GB Optical drive prepared' (cause it could),
etc, etc 🙂
Thanks for the other info.
–jp–seattle–
GRIN. Yep!
Maybe the sheet authors were Boy Scouts? 🙂 🙂
Yeah… and you could advertise IBM's and Macs as "unprepared".
<running away>
Ben
John,
The 68070 is not made by Motorola, but is based on the 68000. To quote a
message Kev sent me regarding the '070:
"a 68070 is a version of the 68000 that has a small PMMU onboard
along with a highspeed serial port, plus a DMA controller. At
12Mhz it's roughly equiv to a 10Mhz 68000. "
I never kept a copy of the message stating who makes the '070.
73, Kelly
PS – To combat this '070, Motorola has an 68340 which has more bells and
whistles and will probably be used on newer CDI platforms (just guessing, I
have nothing to do in the CD field)
Hehe. Kelly, you're like me… you keep pieces of info around somewhere,
forever! 🙂
I'm pretty sure the current CD-I players use a 15Mhz 68070. Combined with
low chipram contention (in any video mode), that's a fairly spry setup.
As you said, next year's players will probably move to the 68340, which is
a pretty neat little controller… I think it has variable-bus-use DMA (so
you can set DMA bus seizure to 100%, 50%, or 25%), doesn't it?
regards – kevin
Hi Kev,
Never looked close enough at the 68340 to get to know the DMA controller.
I was going to suggest it was probably similiar to the 68440 DDMAC, but
this device only has two modes – Burst Transfer (block) and cycle steal
without hold. The 68450 has a third mode, but I don't know what it is
(XRM=11 is MC68450 reserved).
Acording to MC68340/D, when request mode is internal, there are four
adjustable bus bandwidths. If you have 32 bit bus built around the 16 bit
interface on the 68340, the DMA module can sustain a transfer rate of 33.3
MBytes/second (doing DMA to/from a 32 bit device from/to 32 bit memory via
32 bit data bus), or if via 16 bit bus, 8.4 MBytes/second – no slouch!
I would rather play with my 68332. Know where I can get some real high
torque (and I mean high!) stepping motors cheap? Wouldn't mind replacing
the rotors on the Az-El array.
73, Kelly
Kelly – have you been reading Don Lancaster's column in Radio-Electronics?
Apparently old car alternators make great stepping motors… especially if
rewound slightly (so that each rotor is independent, I think).
Of course, they're rather large 🙂 But super-high-torque, I believe.
The 68070 also has a subset of the 68450… dual channels. Burst or cycle
steal. Max's out around 3MBs/sec in wordmode. I've written DMA code for
it, but it's been a while now. On an OS-9 system with a Quantum drive,
people are getting 1.5Mbs/sec file transfers thru the OS. Pretty quick. A
friend has designed a 68340/video card, but hasn't built it up yet.
cheers – kev
Hmmmm… Let me think about this, Kev….
Okay, I can see how you could use an old alternator motor. Would have to
supply a DC current for the field (rotating part in the alternator), and,
as you say, break out the three set of windings to go to the controller
(since they are actually three phase generators). Thanks for passing the
idea along. Radio-Electronics is no longer readily available on the
newstand here, so hardly ever see an issue.
If your friend with the 68340/video board design can expand the video board
to 24 bit hi-res, include an SCSI interface (so it can talk to Ami), and
can build a board for under $500, give me a call!
Now to find a couple of alternators, figure out what I could possible use
for a power source (mucho current), figure out how much current the field
requires, see what the max step rate would be, find a gear box….. Winter
project!
73, Kelly
The way CDI is FMV-capable, is that it has a slot or a socket for the FMV
chip when it comes available. Thus they can keep modifying the FMV spec for
another four years <sorry cant resist> and then bring out a chip.
Of course, they'll need new cd's to support the latest FMV method.
CDXL is just a fancy ultra efficent way to get multiple interleaved data
streams off a CD as fast as possible. CBM did some demos that show 1/4
screen near-FMV (not 24 or 30 fps) to show off the capability.
We (xiphias) will probably be adding CDXL support to our 1992 edition
products. However, i think we will stick with full screen images. The
playback rate will be faster than the current system but not FMV. probably
around 5-10 fps.It will also make our audio breaks cleaner.
There is a chance we can also use CDXL to speed up our search system.
maybe.
as for hanging out & answering question, i enjoy it!
– jerry
Thanks for the info.
–jp–seattle–