CompuServe Thread

#CDROMS alternate formats

13 messages in this thread
#27844From: VicSep 30, 1992 8:34 AM
I am (hopefully) starting up a company that is based upon an alternate operating system. Does anyone know how to go about contacting companies that offer cdroms to offer or discuss with them converting their existing cdroms into a format our native operating system can utilize? I imagine it would take getting the original source information and then writing our engine into it, but I am not the techie and don't much about how cdroms are built and what type of errrr index engines drive them at the software level etc… Any leads or tips on books, contacts etc would be much appreciated! Thanks, Victor
#27850From: Albert DayesSep 30, 1992 9:18 AM
Most of (95%) the CD-ROMs available today use the same format ISO-9660. So moving data around on CD-ROM is not a problem at all since most i if not all important operating systems have CD-ROM support. The problem comes when you want to use retrevial software on a platform other than DOS. Since most of the CD roms currently available only support DOS they only work on DOS. This is still a problem that has yet to be solved in a fashion that is good both to the consumer (end user) and the maker of CD-ROM discs. If you have a specific need for a CD-ROM on a different platform contact the author/manufacturer of the CD-ROM disc and see what their plans are for the future. With regard to tips on books, contacts etc. Just reading messages in this forum should provide you with good information to find books and contacts related to CD-ROM and its associated technology.
#27852From: VicSep 30, 1992 9:40 AM
Albert, Thank you for that info. Could you explain to me what exactly the ISO-9660 format is? Vic
#27863From: Albert DayesSep 30, 1992 1:53 PM
ISO-9660 format is like MS-DOS format in a way since it describes the directory structure and how files are located. Filenames in ISO-9660 (level 1) is 8.3 just like filenames are under MS-DOS. THe previous standard before ISO on which ISO-9660 is based is the high sierra format. If you want specifics on that you can download the files in the lib here that detail the High Sierra format which is from 1986. ISO-9660 was finished in 1988. If you want me to clarify something in more detail feel free to ask me a question.
#27881From: VicOct 1, 1992 12:48 AM
Thank you for the info, this is really a learning experience for me. Ok, I am under the impression that only dos machines can read dos made cdroms, ie, unix os can't utilize a dos based cdrom because I was told, cdroms, some of them that is, have some special type of index or coding that only dos can get at and emulate, so a lot of cds cannot be used by unix-based operating systems. I was wondering if there is a standard manner in which companies make each specific disc 'proprietary' or is it just that unix based systems cannot emulate effectively the ISO-9660 format? (Does that make sense?) Vic
#27892From: Albert DayesOct 1, 1992 8:23 AM
I guess I need to clarify another point. You can read ISO-9660 disks on a UNIX book and you can access the data as you would a normal file but you can't run DOS programs. My Atari ST and the IBM have the same type of filesystem ("MS DOS LIKE"). I can move files back in forth between my Atari and the IBM PC. I can read/write ascii, database, and other data files without any problem. But I can't run DOS programs on my Atari. My Atari uses a 68000 like an Apple MAC does and IBM uses the intel cpu 80286. And the IBM can't run my Atari programs but they can share data because they understand the same filesystem. UNIX, Apple, Atari, IBM, etc can all understand ISO-9660 CD-ROMs, all platforms can read the same data files. But you can only run IBM programs on the IBM, Apple programs on an Apple, Atari programs on an Atari and UNIX programs on a UNIX machine. Propietary CD-ROMS can be very easy to do you can dump an Apple hard disk to a CD-ROM so it is effectively an Apple hard disk. This can't be read on other platforms very easily. You can have a file on the disk the the program checks for and then makes a comparision with the hardware. Then if this machine is not the same then it doesn't run the program. You can do several things to make them proprietary very easily. The Sky is the limit on that one. UNIX systems now support the Rock Ridge format for CDROMs. What Rock Ridge is … is an extension on top of ISO-9660. So you can still read a Rock Ridge CD-ROM on any machine that can read ISO-9660. But only with a Rock Ridge driver does one get all the benefits on UNIX on an ISO-9660 compliant CD-ROM. This a perfect example of why ISO-9660 is such a great standard. If you can put extensions on top of the standard and still have access to the original standard (ISO-9660) you have designed a very good extension to the standard.
#28020From: VicOct 4, 1992 2:57 PM
Wow, there's a whole gaggle of info! thanks 🙂 it will take me a bit to digest that! Vic
#28145From: Eric Bee HawleyOct 6, 1992 12:01 PM
Albert – Vic's answer that he can't run DOS applications under UNIX is incorrect. Micro Design International supports CD-ROMs under AIX, DOS, Novell 386 and UNIX (AT&T, Interactive and SCO). For UNIX and Novell 386, we create something called a file set. A file set is a file which translates from the CD-ROM file system (either ISO 9660 or High Sierra) to native operating system. On feature that we have when using UNIX is the ability to create a DOS file system. This file system can be mounted onto the UNIX environment and access under DOS emulators, e.g. VP/ix. The only problem is if the application on the CD-ROM tries to use the MSDOS Extensions or access a DOS device driver. Since the CD-ROM isn't really running under DOS, but a DOS emulator, then it will not function. For further information, please contact us at 407-677-8333. -> Eric
#28168From: Lisa AngOct 6, 1992 6:35 PM
Eric, Would your please send me some information on your products? My address is. 4905 Dufferin St., Downsview, Ontraio M3H 5T4 Thank you. Lisa.
#27930From: Frank/Lisa RichardsOct 2, 1992 6:34 AM
Vic, It is my understanding that on the level of an ASCII file dump (eg) ISO 9660 disks are interchangeable between operating systems. OTOH, the retirieval software is intrinsically OS dependent, and such things as index files depend on the retrieval software. So a disk may be readable but useless. Multiplatform disks generally are that way by having multiple executables on the same disk which can use the same index and data files. Frank
#28021From: VicOct 4, 1992 2:58 PM
I wonder if there is a market for making discs that are set up for one os only converted to another os? Vic
#28109From: Rich Bowers/OPAOct 5, 1992 11:11 PM
The difficulty of promoting a system based on a non-mainstream OS is two-fold; one based on technology, the other based in marketing. As for technology, Albert Dayes and others have touched on the major points. A 9660 disc may be readable by the CDROM drive, but the content of the disc may not be usable by the system. Software is an obvious problem, but there are also data formats that can cause problems, like grpahic formats for example. For publishers, the big problem is maketing. If they go to the trouble to make their product compatible with your system, can they sell enough product to make it worth it? Such conversions can be expensive, and publishers seek to simplify their lives, not complicate them. CD-I is an excellent example of a non-mainstream OS, and a closed delivery system, which has proved to be a headache for many publishers because of low sales returns for the considerable cost of conversion (are any of the CD-I developers out there getting hot yet?) Your biggest job will be showing publishers how they will benefit from converting to your approach.
#28117From: VicOct 6, 1992 7:48 AM
That's a good point, I think if the cdroms were based on databases that major corporations pay $1,000/6hrs for it might justify itself though. Vic