#Amiga 1200 Released
30 messages in this thread
Mark,
seems like you're on the wrong end of the information chain. I saw the
release at 6:30 EDT at my dealer. Actually it was a release to
developers. This machine is out so wake up and start promoting it. Mabe
you can use the sales.
Peter
Live from New York on Autopilot
Peter,
Developer information is not public information. Dealers who devulge
confidential information should not be dealers (or developers) and
developers who who release information without authority should be kicked
out of the developer program. By publicly admitting that you are
spreading confidential information you have put yourself in a precarious
legal position.
That being said, I will also say that I believe the A1200 to be possibly
the most significant Amiga to be released since the A1000.
-sja
I agree CBM out to very much remove developers from the program that leak
info, or that are just in the program to buy machines at lower prices…
By the way dealers do not receive developers notices, only developers
(which some are also dealers), dealers usually here anouncements from
there customers or CBM (a week or two after a release) for exampple it
took about 8 days after the A4000 and A600 were released before CBM sent
my notice…
Forrest
A British editor friend called me today to tell me that the A1200 was shown
to the press yesterday and launched publically today over there.
So methinks the cat's out of the bag.
"Being a writer under non-disclosure is like being Marc Barrett
and not being allowed to whine incessantly."
Denny,
I've got a call in to CATS to see if the NDA on the A1200 has been lifted.
I can't say anything about an A1200 until it has been lifted, other than to
say that some of the descriptions of the machine that I've read in messages
here are incorrect in some aspects and incomplete in others (as I'm sure
you know from the mailing all devs received last week).
Steve,
I've got a call into CBM marketing (I got info on "non-disclosed stuff"
from them too) asking if I can get permission to clarify misinformation.
Hopefully I'll hear something in the morning.
Folks in the support conferences are foaming at the mouth over this one.
It reminds me of an event about 1969 or so. I was working on a project
with some heavily classified frequencies. I also had in my hands an
advertisement from a crystal filter vendor with those frequencies listed
by function and channel number. It took the Navy some three months or more
to declassify things. Large organizations move slowly.
I sure hope I (and prolly Steve and maybe Harv) have a chance to take
Dionne or whomever aside and inform the poor deluded souls of the
realities of worldwide communications networks and how fast the news moves
over them. They need to learn that they are facing a global information
net that moves things nearly as fast as their corporate decision trees can
move the information.
{@_@}
Denny,
I just got off the phone with CATS. The A1200 NDA has _not_ been lifted
for North American developers. Since the information posted here so far
about the A1200 is not fully correct, hopefully a clarification will be
made by an European user.
Evidently these "CATS" aint heard of the Global Village concept, man!
Um, I have "heard" from – oh we'll call the source "Deep Commodore" – that
they are under orders from way way up the chain. THat is why I hope we get
a chance to brief "way up the chain" about the global information village
at the Jan DevCon in Orlando.
{@_@}
(Please DO give the CATS guys a break. They bend over backwards to help
the developer community. They really do. But they also have to follow
their boss' orders. {O.O} )
Sure I'll give them a break. Actually my attitude was more one of
amusement than annoyance. And it's nice to hear the guys are helpful.
"Being a writer under non-discloure is like being Marc Barrett
and not being allowed to whine incessantly."
Being under non-disclosure, WOULD be MB's worst nightmare. I read his
USENET posts all the time. His messages can be amazing in there ablitiy
to cause riots.
Someday, I might reply to one of his posts, but I some armour first.
Ron.
Uh….believe it or not MB has developer status…..or at least he did at
one time.
Marc was under nondisclosure for awhile (somehow he was in the developer
program for awhile). He interpreted the non-disclosure to mean that he
wasn't allowed to post any _correct_ information he was given! 🙂
(seriously)
andy
He's not still a developer is he?
Steve
I doubt it.
andy
I wish developers would pay attention to there non-disclosure contracts
with CBM that they made when they became a developer. When it and if it is
released or any other machine for that matter info and pricing will be at
your amiga dealer usually the week after an official release, until then
it does not exist.
Forrest
Releases to developers are protected by Non-Disclosure agreements. That
document was not for public eyes.
My point stands. We at Video Computer Resources understand our
commitments to Commodore and our agreement on file with Commodore. It
would be my suggestion that you ask your dealer to get CATS to clear this
document–something they will not do by the way.
-mark=
Peter,
You don't seem to understand – and neither does your dealer, apparently –
that information sent to developers is not to be shared with anyone who is
not a developer. Your dealer had to sign a non-disclosure agreement in
order to become a developer. Everyone who has signed those agreements is
both morally and legally obliged to refrain from spreading any word about
any product that has not been announced by Commodore. And any developer
who breaks his word to Commodore and spreads information that has not been
released is very, very likely to lose his developer status as soon as
Commodore learns about it. Not only that, he is legally liable and can,
if Commodore so chooses, be sued for damages resulting in the premature
release of information.
—Betty
Some of this precious information really isn't. I've always been able to
ask a dealer/developer what was the latest news. Once in a while one will
be reluctant, but I always hear or overhear what the latest developements
are.
The only question is when something will be available. I'm sure there are
developers who stick by the rules, but if I want to know whats going on, I
get my answers with a smile and "you didn't hear it from me".
Most users who care about the machine always know what's coming down the
the pike, it's just the WHEN that's not always easily gotten.
I'm sure these sources, or leaks as some call them, aren't done to be
belligerent. They (he or she) want to make me as happy as possible because
they know I put a lot of money in their pocket. They know I feel special
to have privileged information and will make it easier to reciprocate,
thats just speculation, I don't really know the reason for not clamming
up.
What is done with the NDA info is another topic but it's no big deal that
it's not as secret as some wish it was, or thought it was. It's been that
way for a very long time and is just part of the "way it is".
But you didn't here it from me 🙂
Paul,
The "real" problem with the casual leaking of information (in my
opinion and in my self-serving interests) is that I, as a developer,
really do need this information as it directly has an effect on how I'm
going to be getting my next meal. With the prevalent trickle-leaks coming
from some developers, my source of information is in jeopardy, as
Commodore will be more reluctant to be forthcoming with developers about
new things.
Unfortunately, there are a number of "developers" who do have access to
the information, but are not really doing commercial development for the
Amiga, and therefore only risking their source of information, not their
source of income. For them, the "risk" is small, yet they are also
jeopardizing my livelihood!
Bob,
A very good answer.
Gail
Even though I am a dealer, I *never* release stuff covered by NDA.
However, it is apparent that the problem of releasing information covered
by NDA is rampant among dealers. I think I would support C= limiting the
developers program to people who are actually developing a product, or
have a product out their they need to support. This should eliminate some
dealers, and it might tighten things up for Commodore.
-mark=
But why? NDA's serve no purpose.
I'll disagree.
NDA's do serve a purpose. Several in fact.
First, they keep beta-testers from posting the specs of machines that
are still undergoing changes. There is nothing worse that being told
about a great new feature, and deciding *that* feature makes the machine,
and not getting it.
Second, who would buy "today's" Amiga's if they KNEW about the one that
will be "finished" in only 6 months? This is referred to as the Osborne
Syndrome.
Osborne released a great CP/M computer, everyone loved it. Osborne then
said they were developping a new CP/M computer and get the specs.
Everyone STOPPED buying their computers, they were waiting for the new
one. But Osborne needed to keep saling the first computer, to pay for
R&D for the second. Osborne, went bankrupt real quick.
Some argue over the cause & effect, but it did affect the way others
released information about their developments.
It stops (or slows) talk about vaporware. This is related to the first
reason. Ever wonder how many *different* A4000 Amiga models were being
tested? Or even how many experimental "ECS" Amigas were dropped for
newer AGA models? Not telling us, protects us from confusion. I once
met someone that thought the developer "v34" of AmigaDOS meant 34
versions had been *released*!
Ron.
– ap'ing with AP. (Eagles may fly, but weasles aren't sucked
into jet engines.)
Uh… If it is a developer release that you are speaking of, then the way
I see it, you're violating the Non-Disclosure Agreement that all
Commercial developer's sign. I don't know if Certified Developer's a
required to sign a NDA also, but I also don't think that they get the most
up to date news. They certainly don't pay as much to be a Developer. 🙂
If you are violating a NDA I would advise that you stop, as CATS does
monitor this group. Also I should say something to them myself.
Greg
Greg Givler – CBMSER Sysop
Commodore Product Assurance
Greg:
Peter is not a developer… he said that his dealer showed him what he
believed to be developers information. Peter is not party to any NDA. His
dealer is, and, IMHO, his dealer shouldn't be a dealer. How a dealer can
complain about piracy andd then violate an NDA is beyond me.
Yup…certs have to sign NDA's too.
Steve
Greg,
It is my understanding that the NDA we certified developers sign is
exactly the same as the one commercial developers sign. We don't have to
pay as much because we don't get (or need) as much support, among other
things.
—Betty
Greg,
I guess you don't have Autopilot so it might be difficult for you to
read the thread. I am not in any way bound by a NDA. I was the one that
compromised my dealers confidence. I was bugging him about a new system
for about three weeks. It seemed that I was going to be Promoted to G.M.
for a Bennigans in New York so the first thing I wanted to do with ny
extra cash was to purchase an Amiga 4000.
I got passed up for this promotion and all of a sudden my purchase of
the 4000 went from immenent to never in a million years. I went in one
day and an employee of his was talking about the 1200 only I didn't know.
I was using the 4000 at the time. The owner came up to me and asked me
how badly I wanted one and then told me about the 1200. He did this in
confidence and I didn't know this. I had no Idea this was privilaged
information, even more so because when I got home that night and logged
onto that other system (GEnie) there was a file complete with release
info. This excited me and I spilled my guts, but only after the fool who
uploaded the specs. Check out the library here. I uploaded a copy of
the. The culprits name and the name of the Commodore official who sent
the to him is still on them. I sugest you send him a message threatening
him like you did me. Your lucky your not in my industry. You wouldn't
make a dime.
I love Commodore and I love my Amigas (all three of them, plus a 128
and a 64). Can you blame me for getting excited about a new release.
Peter
Live from New York on Autopilot