#3D Studio FONTS
32 messages in this thread
As usual, I have yet *another* question. I'd like to know what kind
of fonts it is that 3DS reads. I was told that it can read my
windows fonts, so I went into the Shaper and directed it towards the
windows directory and it wouldn't read any of the fonts, because they
were in another format TTF, which is the TRUE TYPE FONTS. Is there a
way of making 3DS read these, or where can I get more fonts? Thank
you in advance.
3DS will read Postscript Type 1 fonts (.pfb) (which, if you've got
ATM for Win, _could_ be construed as "windows" fonts) and URW Bezier
fonts (.fnt and be). These _are_ the only extention buttons listed
in the Shaper's Create/Text/Font dialog box, which should be a pretty
good clue. There are programs which will convert TrueType fonts to
Type 1 fonts — I have FontMonger by Ares software. It seems like it
was about $75 or so mail-order.
FontMonger is one of those cute little borderline programs like the
dongle busting software sold to people. They sell the conversion
software with the clause "We urge you to check the license agreement
for your fonts before using FontMonger to convert or alter
them."(Introduction page 3)
The fact of the matter is that virtualy 100% of the non-freeware fonts
on the market are copyrighted and come in a nice little sealed folder
that directly states that you are prohibited by law from converting
or altering the coding structure of the font in any manner
whatsoever. If you use such software to do conversions then you are
breaking that agreement and subsequently breaking the law.
Although I'm sure there are people who do things like this on a
regular basis, it's probably not Kosher to tout such practices as a
good method of obtaining software.
Paul 🙂
I basically agree with you that such software could be considered
"borderline" in its "conversion" use — however:
*) You state that the license agreement prohibits you from "converting
or altering the coding structure of the font in any manner." Well,
what do you call using the 3DS shaper/text option? You are taking
the type 1 code and turning it into 3DS shaper/mesh data, and
altering it in all sorts of ways. Hell, technically, sending the
font to your printer alters/converts the code! (I know — I'm kinda
stretching things with that last bit — sorry.)
*) Fontmonger also allows you to add/create/substitute symbols within
the font (ie adding a (c) or something so you don't have to go
popping up that darn Dingbats font all the time). I don't see that
function as in any way "stealing" anything from the font company.
*) _I_ accquired the software in order to take a font that was _close_
to a client's logo font (a state college) and alter it to match for
use on a coversheet for a set of drawings. Again, I don't see how
this is infringing on the rights of the font company as, if I'd have
been able to find an exact match, I would have been MORE than happy
to buy it. As it was, the final result of all my playing turned out
less than satisfactory, and I ended up just cleaning up a scan.
Anyway, while you feel that maybe it was less than "kosher" to
recommend conversion, I still feel that as long as I am not copying
the software to avoid buying more copies, then anything I want to do
with their font on one machine in order to get the output I want is
justified. Who am I cheating to convert a font to bring it in to 3D
Studio? That is a use that the font designers never originally
imagined. Many font companys these days even outright provide both
Type 1 _and_ TrueType versions of any font you buy, recognizing the
problem with "format wars" and the ridiculousness of having a font
and not being able to use it in some circumstance.
You need to realize you're talking about two entirely seperate
things. A.) If you're actually changing the design of a font to the
level that the font is totally different from the original then you
are considered to be creating a new font.
B.) If you simply use a program like Fontmonger to translate a font to
a different format then you are breaking the licensing agreement of
the manufacturer, you are simultaneously removing the copyright of
the font code and replacing it with ARES Software's copyright notice
and you are breaking software laws inacted by the United States
Supreme Court. Not to mention that screwy programs like FontMonger
absolutely destroy the integrity of a font. They have some half butt
hinting scheme that totally destroys the original designs.
Also the response of "this isn't what the original designers intended"
is exactly my point. The software was designed for a specific purpose
and sold for a specific purpose. When you alter the code, you're
breaking the law. Not necessarily harmful, but not extremely Kosher.
Programs using interpretation to read data from specific
characters(i.e.-3D Studio) is 100% different than converting an
entire set of characters at one time and simulataneously altering the
font manufacturer's copyright notice.
Beyond that …there isn't much to say…. it's legal for Ares to sell
the software, it's illegal for the end user to convert most fonts.
Alot of people do it, it definately isn't a great thing to do.
Paul
P.S. – There are no font wars, True Type has specific advantages that
Postscript doesn't have and Vice Versa. The two technologies overlap
to a certain extent, but both have extremely specific areas in which
they excel. The so-called font wars is a term that laymen use because
they don't understand the actual font technologies.
>>If you simply use a program like Fontmonger to translate a font to a
>>different format then you are breaking the licensing agreement of the
>>manufacturer, you are simultaneously removing the copyright of the font
>>code and replacing it with ARES Software's copyright notice and you are
>>breaking software laws inacted by the United States Supreme Court.
I hadn't thought about ARES _replacing_ the copywrite info, and I'd
have to agree that is _definitly_ shady (and I did, I think, agree in
my last message that the whole conversion issue is kinda iffy). I
guess I still have a hard time seeing (even if the license agreement
is written to prohibit it) what the problem is if I have installed
the legally purchased font on _one_ machine, and I want to use that
font, but gosh, I need it in another format for this specific
program, why I can't convert it. (And actually, after seeing how
rotten, as you mention, a conversion program screws up a perfectly
good looking font, you'd probably be more than willing to go out and
try to find a new (original) font in the target format.)
>>Programs using interpretation to read data from specific characters
>>(i.e.-3D Studio) is 100% different than converting an entire set of
>>characters at one time and simulataneously altering the font >>manufacturer's
copyright notice.
I think this is an example of my above point — ie, if I bring a font
into 3D Studio, I'm just making use of this font I bought. BUT, if I
bring in each letter, save it as a shaper file and then distribute
these files to other machines, other users &/or sell/distribute them,
then I think I'd be breaking the license agreement. (This is in NO
way implying that you do that — I know that you _custom_ create 3DS
fonts — it's just an example.) In other words, I guess I'm
advocating an "anything done within the privacy of a single machine"
sort of thing. As long as I'm not doing anything to deny the creators
their just profit, it shouldn't be a problem. I WILL grant that if
the creator sells "separate" versions of the font in each format,
then you are DEFINITELY infringing on their rights. But, as I said, I
think most people (other than Microsoft and Adobe) are packaging both
TT & Type1 versions together.
>>P.S. – There are no font wars, True Type has specific advantages that
>>Postscript doesn't have and Vice Versa. >>The so-called font wars is a term
that laymen use because they don't >>understand the actual font technologies.
Paul! Was that a _shot_? Actually, there _are_ font wars — they are
being fought daily in my software. Microsoft only directly supports
TT (cause Type 1 is a competitor), so I have to buy Adobe's ATM to
use with Windows. Then the first WP for Win doesn't display ATM fonts
on screen right, and the new PM 5.0 sometimes has trouble with
printing TT fonts ("but that's MS's new postscript driver's fault"
says Aldus). 3D Studio doesn't read TT fonts, so now I have to go
out and buy new copies of font x in another format, cause you say it's
a contract violation to convert them. AGGHH!
I'd be interested to know your take on Adobe's Acrobat (and it's
ilk).
I think we actually agree on most of these points. I didn't
originally intend for this conversation to get to this level.
The reasons for different font sets is really beyond the scope of what
we can discuss on this forum. Suffice it to say, that it really has
nothing to do with the greed of certain companies. Virtually all Font
types are created to fill specific voids in previous technologies.
Microsoft decided to Support TrueType because it offers extreme
advantages to their users. Regardless of what anyone says, that's the
reason for the switch. TrueType is an Apple product. Do you really
think that Microsoft would pay ungodly sums to its greatest
competitor to try to circumvent Adobe? Nope!
The reference to the laymen not understanding font technologies wasn't
meant as a shot to you, but more towards the idiots who use such
terms in magazines simply to make their covers look good.
There are specific reasons that 3D Studio doesn't use TrueType fonts.
Some of which include the fact that TrueType fonts are extremely
large in size and offer absolutely no advantages for the 3D Studio
user. They're also difficult to interpret and tend to composite
themselves causing strange effects when trying to display bezier
info.
Bringing letters into 3D Studio and saving them doesn't constitute any
type of violation, but selling them or freely distributing them
probably would.
All in all your just simply prohibited from altering the code. Period.
Just like the fact that trying to remove the copy protection(dongle)
from certain programs is prohibited. If you alter the code in any
manner, for any reason, you're breaking the law.
As to the manner in which our fonts are created…… There aren't
any other font sets on the face of the earth that come close to
comparing to our fonts for 3D Studio. Each font is custom designed
and compiled in a very unique way that is designed specifically for
3D Animation Work. It took me 4 years, 68 volumes of font related
text and tons of research to finally figure out exactly what was the
best way to compile fonts for titling and 3D work, and although it's
a bizarre thing to specialize in, when the need arises, people tend
to call for answers.
Have Fun!!!!
David,
Great!!
Thank you for the help!
Alex K.
3DStudio R2 will read Postscript Fonts, and Bezier based fonts. In R3
you'll have the same options, except it'll access full international
extended character sets.
There are going to be a number of fonts on the R3 CD, so that should
help you in your search.
Additionally, I have a couple of people on staff who do nothing but
create fonts. They both have a vast typography background and we
currently have hundreds of different type faces for sale. There will
be information about ordering more fonts in the R3 package or if you
have a particular need, you can call us at (804)422-2745 or Fax us At
(804)422-4772.
Be forwarned that our font sets are not in any way standard. Each
character is individually create and optimized for 3D Studio, and
render up to 800% faster than fonts found in the Desktop Publishing
Arena. They're primarily designed for Broadcast Titling and Logo
Work, and are particularly popular in the European Market, due to our
extensive collection of foreign character sets. Chinese anyone?
Armenian? 🙂
We also have a new set of 3D mesh fonts coming out just after the R3
release that are entire sets of 3D fonts. Encompassing effects that
would take an individual animator months if not years to create.
We'll have a new brochure coming out within the next 14 days, so if
you're interested leave an address or a fax number and I'll get some
more info out.
I'd be REAL inerested in your foreign-character font collections. Send
me some info!!
Also, when assembling a font collection for 3DS, watch out for
low-quality imitations of classics such as Garamond or Helvetica.
Corel fonts saved as AI files come to mind. When you zoom in on
individual characters in the shaper, the flaws in the typeface design
become very apparent. Who likes pulling vertices when they should be
in the right place to begin with?? The shaper is where the rubber
meets the road in terms of font quality.
Tom,
If you'll e-mail me an address, I'll get some info to you.
As to the reasons that Corel and other stuff have alot of flaws is
because they aren't "CREATING" their fonts, the vast majority of
their stuff represents cheap ripoffs from other manufacturers. I.E. –
Let's scan something, compile it and sell it. :-[
I believe they corrected alot of the stuff in Corel4 by finally
licensing fonts from major font houses as opposed to dirtying up
stuff and putting it on a CD.
One thing about our fonts is that we are the "ONLY!!!" font company
in the world that specifically designs fonts one vertex at a time for
3D Studio. Nobody has an exact duplicate and nobody has anything
anywhere near as clean. Like I said before, we've done comparisons
with every major manufacturer's fonts and we're so conservative with
vertex placement and point on curve technology, that we average 8X
faster rendering speed on text. So with DP fonts you have a hard time
rendering a logo, with our stuff you can render pages and pages of
text! We can fill every need in the 3D type world.
Hi Paul. I'd be interested in the font packages, also.
Hows the trade show going?
John Tissavary (La Luna cie)
John,
The trade show is hell!!!!!!!!!
But alot of new clients, Undersea Warfare anyone?
I'll e-mail details tomorrow night.
Paul
I'll be looking forward to hearing from you. Did you get my package? If not,
let me know and I'll send another copy of the tape.
Regards,
John Tissavary (La Luna cie)
Paul,
Please send me info on your font packages.
Alec Jason PO Box 375 Pinole, CA 94564
You never know when a stray comment might call attention to yourself…
<<our extensive collection of foreign character sets. Chinese anyone?
Armenian? :-)>>
I work for an architectural firm that's doing a lot of work in China
and we're having trouble dealing with getting Chinese characters for
AutoCAD. Would your collection be of any help to us? How much work
have you done in Chinese? Any information would be much appreciated.
As a matter of fact we have 4 different working chinese font sets and
it happens to be one of my personal goals to have a 4000 character+
set very soon. One of our problems in establishing a solid chinese
set has been the extreme diversity in character strokes from one area
to another. It seems that in Mainland China you can be speaking
fluently in one area… drive 15 minutes and be totally at a lost as
to the lanquage.
One client that we are currently working with is currently filming in
China for a Chinese Government sponsored documentary. We're designing
the titling fonts for the film as well as some really great engraved
flying logo's.
If you have a specific need and have a definate keyboard character
layout in mind, I'm sure we could work something out.
WOW! Thank you for that info!
I would love to receive the broshure, please send it to :
Alex Karamanoglou
9271 W Bay Harbor Dr. #11
Bay Harbor Island, FL 33154
Thanks again!
Alex K.
Paul,
I would be interested in some more info on your fonts. My address is:
SSH –Graphic Realities–
4011 Deleon
Houston, Tx. 77087
>> where can I get more fonts?
When I was in need of more fonts I picked up Corel Draw 3. It came
with a CD ROM that has 100 or more fonts that are directly readable
by 3DS. I got Corel Draw on a competative upgrade for about $149.
Corel Trace also comes in handy for those scanned logos, not to
mention Draw, Chart, and all those clip art images.
Seemed like a good deal and has served me well. Just thought you
might like the info.
ABSOLUTELY! I happen to have Corel 4.0 and I don't know if I'm lucky
or what, my copy of it had NO bugs at all!.. I heard that people were
going crazy with all the bugs in ver 4.0…. oh well the CD-ROM that
it brings has not 100 but 700 fonts!!! Is that over kill or what? I
didn't know that 3DS could read them… thank you again for the info.
>> in ver 4.0…. oh well the CD-ROM that it brings has not 100 but
>> 700 fonts!!!
>> I didn't know that 3DS could read them… thank you again for the info.
You are welcome, Alex. WOW, 700 fonts? Thats wild! …the wall
chart must be huge <g>.
The wall chart isn't that big…. basically what they did was to give
you more variations of the same fonts. You end up with a hundred or
so and "Lots" of variations. Bold, Extra Bold, Extra Extra Bold, etc.
They should easily be able to provide thousands and thousands at that
rate.
Also, they do the same thing that most of the graphic companies do,
i.e. if you get 700 fonts in two formats, then you actually get 350
fonts, then you're getting up to 15 variations of some fonts so you
actually get the same hundred or so you've been getting since release
1. Only there are more and more bolds and italics so that on the
outside of the box you can say, hey our new program has 999,999,999
fonts and we still have space left on the CDRom so keep a lookout for
our next big version with a $350 upgrade price!
Can you tell that I wasn't pleased with paying big bucks for the 4.0
upgrade?
so I take it you didn't think the Corel 3.0 to 4.0 upgrade was worth
the price <g>. I'm a registered user of 3.0, but haven't taken the
bait and upgraded to 4.0. I only bought 3.0 for the fonts and clip
art. Do you think it would be worth upgrading for me, based on those
criteria?
I was extremely upset to have paid ~$150 for the version3 upgrade and
then they had the audacity to immediately release a version 4 that
had tons of bugs and a couple hundred dollar upgrade price. Unless
you're a Corel fanatic I would definately suggest not upgrading to 4.
For some reason I guess I just got bent out of shape that they just
seemed to be in desperate need of money and decided to screw their
loyal users to get it.
Paul,
you've just reinforced my decision to _not_ upgrade to 4.0, thanks.
You do get a ton of clip art. The problem is that there is no index
whatsoever on where to find the stuff you want. In version 3 they had
that clip art catalog which showed both filename and directory. Now
it's just a pictorial catalog with no reference as to where those
files are. It's also good to point out that the clip art collection
is just a "demo" from several clip art vendors. They don't make much
sense as a "group". Overall the program is so full of little problems
that it makes a pain to use it. There is no hope of getting to talk
to anybody there either. Their Compuserve forum is so full of people
complaining that you feel discouraged to even try to ask for help
(I'm talking about over 1,000 messages every day)…. I would say, it
may be worth about $20 bucks….
thanks Gus. One of my clients just bought Corel 4.0 and I've had a
chance to compare the fonts and clip art. It looks like I'll be fine
with sticking with Corel 3.0. I never use any of the programs that
come with it anyway.
>> Now it's just a pictorial catalog with no reference as to where those files
are. <<
Well, the _patch_ to the upgrade does include a file-finder program (with its
own cute icon, even) to aid in using the clip art (i.e., Ver. 4.0, Rev B
Patch).
>> There is no hope of getting to talk to anybody there either. <<
Not _my_ experience. I had an installation problem and got a prompt and
accurate reply. The Corel people on that forum seem not to be taking all that
flaming too personally and are going about their work of providing good tech
help. Kinda like here, where Gary and Jack, et al, don't let all the Glowing
Compliments go to _their_ heads! <g>
Thanks for the info. I knew there was a reason or two I didn't
upgrade from 3.0. That upgrade price would be twice what I paid to
get 3.0 on the competative upgrade. OUCH!