CompuServe Thread

laptop to Amiga ???'s

15 messages in this thread
#116139From: Roy S. LauferSep 27, 1993 7:22 PM
Gee… not only do we share the same initials, but the same problems/questions <g>! I too have decided that a laptop would be useful, and realize that C= is too interested in their CD32 to think about much else! I've been perusing alot of the PC mags to get a sense of whats available. Judging models that I've played with at different stores, there a bunch of things you need to think about:power, expandability, ports, screen size, color/BW, active matrix (good contrast/color) vs passive (poorer contrast), keyboard size, computer size and weight, mouse, battery life. If you need is purely DOS functionality at lowest possible costs, you would wnat something totally different than a more user friendly bright contrasty large screen which runs something that multi-tasks (somewhat). Unfortunately asking for a single suggestion for a PC type laptop is similar to asking a general question about what kind of car to buy. My suggestion is to buy some PC mags <ugh>, and visit some stores to get a "feel" for what's out there. If you are interested in name brand (which will cost you more), you have more of a chance finding others on CIS that own them and can give you an opinion about specifics. Good luck with your search! // I'm gonna wait for \X/ the A5000! <G> -RSL-
#116724From: ROGER LE VINEOct 2, 1993 6:41 AM
Roy, I looked at and played with some laptops before I posted the message. I also talked to some Messy-Dos types. By them the minimum system is a 386 or better, 4 megs ram, 120 meg hard drive (and that probably should be run with "disk doubler" software),DOS6.0 and Windows3.1. Screen type, keyboard etc. were as you suggest personal preference. The problem is that they have very different priorities from Amiga users. The high ram and disk requirements seem to to be based on the size of the operating system and in particular the size of windows programs. Looking at the system requirements for a "basic" spreadsheet, for example, is 5 megs disks space(7 recommended) and 2 megs ram(4 recommended)!!! Similar programs take about 880k disk space on the Amiga and run easily in 1 meg ram. I really wasn't asking which laptop to buy, but for suggestions from Amiga users who have had experience with them to help me learn what questions to ask, and if there are specific things that make a laptop harder or easier to interface with an Amiga. i.e I learned that the BIOS is not part of Messy-Dos, there are several different BIOSi <?> out there. Is this something I need to worry about when I want to export data to my Amiga. The Messy-Dos types had no idea. I'm also interested in knowing if there are Messy-Dos programs that make it easier than others to transfer data from a laptop to the Amiga, in particular a wordprocessor, a spread sheet and a DB. BTW I,ve already gotten some good info from Michael Gerard and Ron Legro, but before I Spend money on a laptop I'll take all the help I can get. If you learn anything you think might interest me, or reach a conclusion on system requirements and/or program compatability please let me know. Luck to you too // RSL Finally entering the 20th century \\// Via Autopilot
#116751From: Robert MarsanyiOct 2, 1993 2:08 PM
If I may jump in here: I'm an Amiga user, and I just recently bought an IBM-compatible laptop for work. BIOS problems: these days, it's rare to find a BIOS that causes any problems. Compatibility issues between various IBM clones were ironed out a few years ago, and the differences between BIOS' these days mostly relate to custom power management features, arcane RAM/ROM remappings and so forth. If you buy a name brand, don't worry about it. Transfer: There's a shareware program available on CServe called Twin Express. You need two programs: one runs on the Amiga, one on the clone. Connect the two with a null modem. You can then transfer files from one to the other painlessly. Alternatively, if you're using AmigaDos 2.x or later, or have a copy of CrossDos, you can transfer files on 720K diskettes without problems. Except, of course, file format issues. Most IBM-clone word processors can read and write a number of different formats, including Word Perfect (which used to be supported on the Amiga). I've had most success with RTF, Rich Text Format, for inter-machine wp file exchange, but I don't know that any of the Amiga WP programs support that. Anyone? In the spreadsheet world, DIF files are a sort of lowest common denominator. Again, IBM-clone programs are pretty capable with different formsts; I've imported straight ASCII comma-delimited files into Excel without a hitch, and you can generate those files almost by just printing your spreadsheet to disk. Database: a lowest common denominator here is either ASCII delimited or maybe dBase format, which most everything reads and writes. I'm not really up on Amiga db prorams, so I can't say much more. Resources on the laptop: if you're running Windows, then your requirements match those you listed in your post. If you're sticking with DOS, you can get by with much less. It really depends on what you want to do with the machine, but to run current-generation WP, SS and DB programs generally means Windows, especially if you want to move data between them. I got myself a Toshiba T1900, which has just been replaced by the 1950 (!) It's considered a "budget" model, '486, monochrome, 4Mb RAM, big hard drive. It works really well, no complaints. They have international service, it's very well made and supported. I went with a brand name because I thought that the engineering requirements for a good laptop were probably a little more demanding than just slapping a desktop clone together, but you may feel differently. If you're still looking, PC magazine had a review of forty-something different systems in their August '93 issue. Hope the info above helps – let me know if you have more specific questions. –rbt
#116836From: ROGER LE VINEOct 3, 1993 9:00 AM
Robert, Thanks, that's the kind of info I'm looking for. The hardest part is knowing what questions to ask. I think I've got the dope I need on the spread sheet and DB, and I know Prowrite will read straight ASCII files, so now I need to find a Messy-Dos WP that can output that( or write it to disk), or a program that can strip the printer control codes. I do have one specific question. I noticed that most of the laptops I've looked at come standard with 1.44 meg floppies. Are these drives dual format, that is can they read/write 720k also ? I'd hate to have to buy a HD Amiga drive unless I really have to. One of those things I didn't think to ask. BTW if anyone thinks Amiga mags are biased try reading PC mags. Just about every system and program is GREAT. Their idea of panning something is saying it's a shame that it lacks some feature, but of course it has something the others lack, very helpful :-(. // RSL Finally entering the 20th century \\// Via Autopilot
#116966From: Ron LegroOct 4, 1993 9:51 AM
Yes, PC 1.44 meg drives can R/W 720K. — Ron Legro from Milwaukee via AUTOPILOT (The only way to fly)
#116779From: Roy S. LauferOct 2, 1993 7:58 PM
Roger, Memory requirements will be a major culture shock. We are use to the relative compactness of WB OS' ROM, RAM and HD requirements. OS/2, NT, and even Windows seems to emulate UNIX's penchant for the need of MASSIVE amounts of memory. I understand that although NT will operate with 8 MB of RAM, 16 is prefered!! Compared to what could be done with the early A1000 with 1MB of memory this is absurd (but what should we expect, NT/Windows was written by those rocket scientists that brought us AmigaBasic <ugh>)! BIOS is the firmware that boots up DOS, or NT, or whatever. It is the PC's most direct access (and used to be used heavily by game creators to circumvent speed problems with PC's in th eolde days – I don't know if they still "cheat"). The BIOS should effect you in the least, since your exchange of data will be at a higher level. The easiest approach is "SneakerNet" – just copy PC formatted disks back and forth between your Amiga and your Laptop (remember not to use 1.4MB high density disks, or atleast format them as lower density so that Amiga's CrossDOS will recognize them. You could also hook the serial ports together as a null modem and exchange data as if you were uploading/downloading thru terminal programs on both machines. The fastest (and most absurd possibility, is to get ethernet boards for both and hook them up as peers on a small network (then the speeds would be amazing). Again, the PC market is a regular "free-for-all" of vendors poping into existance, and winking out. There old out of date models still being sold, sometimes in the same places that sell new stuff. You can buy the next great wonder or a museum artifact! We're probably looking for different things in laptops to a degree. I'm interested in having access to text in a more mobile way, and am presently considering the Compaq LTE 4/25e, which not only has a 486SL/25, but features the only active matrix black and white large screen. The contrast is much nicer than in passive screens and the price is lower than an active matrix color screen. The compaq also has a docking base, which can be configured as a "second" base computer for interfacing with my Amiga. I also want to get a little experience with the PC world (just in case I have to depend on those machines). If your needs are a simple DOS tect device that inputs data and dumps it to your Amiga, don't let people "gee whiz" you into buying something twice the price that you really don't need. Next year the stuff their selling now will ALL look lame (and the next year, and the next…). As for a PC program specific to dumping data to an Amiga, I don't think there is such an animal. The best thing is to find Amiga programs that have compatible file formats to the PC Universe, and shift floppies with the data. SuperBase exists on both systems, WordPerfect used to, but some Amiga Word Processors can translate PC formats (how well, I don't know). Unfortunately, don't expect anyone from the PC Universe to court Amiga users (there's just too many of them and too few of us). The better approach is to investigate Amiga software producers for file compatibility in their products! Good Luck (to us ALL <g>)!!! // I'm gonna wait for \X/ the A5000! <G> -RSL-
#116823From: BILL LEACHOct 3, 1993 7:25 AM
Roy; Of course if you have an Ami high density drive CrossDos will work fine on 1.44 Meg diskettes. -bill
#116857From: Roy S. LauferOct 3, 1993 3:04 PM
Bill, And if you have a high density drive you're a lucky bast…, make that a lucky guy <g>! // I'm gonna wait for \X/ the A5000! <G> -RSL-
#116999From: BILL LEACHOct 4, 1993 5:14 PM
I bought several of the high density drives as "replacement" parts soon after the first machine was shipped with them (though one of the machines came with the high density drive in it). -bill
#116837From: ROGER LE VINEOct 3, 1993 9:00 AM
Roy, I agree that the Compaq looks like a nice machine, but it's kind of pricey. I've been leaning towards the Epson ActionNote 486SLC/33. It lacks a PCMCIA slot, docking bay and that really nice active matrix display, but it's also less than half the cost of the Compaq. It also has about the nicest keyboard feel of any laptop I've tried that cost under $3000. With the prices on the street of a desktop PC I don't think I'll miss the docking bay, and since I do most of my work indoors the screen is certainly acceptable. The lack of a PCMCIA slot is one of those things I don't know enough about to make a decission yet. Besides, the Epson has one distinct advantage — no Intel Inside logo. Actually the Intel chipset is probably the best, and is guaranteed compatible, I have no argument with that. It's just that damned logo I'm getting to hate. I may just wait for the Xmas sales and see what's available at clearance prices. I guess the real question is whether I NEED windows software or whether I can get away with using DOS 6.0. If I ever decide I'll let you know. Thanks for the input. // RSL Finally entering the 20th century \\// Via Autopilot
#116861From: Roy S. LauferOct 3, 1993 3:05 PM
Roger, True, an active matrix B&W will cost more than a passive display, but if you get a headache using CRT monitors for too long (like me) every bit of screen quality improvement is worth its weight in IC grade silcon crystal <g>. The Compaq's trackball is in an awful place (next to the screen), but it has a lot of nice features. Since Compaq has been announcing a bunch of new computers (pen based ones too), they are reducing some list prices, so I too am going to wait a while. Prices are almost guaranteed to go down as time goes on. The base unit is attrctive to me, to improve the ease of transporting info PC <-> Amiga, not to mention the possibility of using my SCSI CDROM for all those PC based material! I don't think the PCMCIA should bother you that much. It is supposed to be a standardized means to have small interchangeable cards which act as RAM drives, FaxModems, and ethernet boards. Unfortunately the standard, isn't very standard, and their seems to be loads of cards that don't work on loads of computers. The powers that be are working on it, but for now, its Russian Roulette <g>! Even though windows is a second rate GUI, next to WB, I'm VERY use to a multi-tasking environment! Good luck! // I'm gonna wait for \X/ the A5000! <G> -RSL-
#117022From: Robert MarsanyiOct 4, 1993 7:25 PM
re: PCMCIA: it's true, the PCMCIA thing hasn't settled down yet, but I wanted my laptop to have one specifically for things like SCSI interfaces and suchlike, without having to use the (slower) parallel port. This specifically because my Amiga uses SCSI, so I want to get the most use out of the peripherals I buy in the future by having them work on either machine. To start, I've purchased an NEC portable CD-ROM; I'm in the process of getting the PCMCIA SCSI card up, and I'll let y'all know how that works out. re: active matrix screen. The Compaq screen was nice. Yup. But, actually the thing that sold me finally on the Toshiba was the high quality passive matrix display. It's got the nicest contrast and fastest response of any of the monochrome passive matrix screens I'd seen, and I really couldn't justify the extra money for the Compaq. Check out the T1900/1950. –rbt
#117048From: Robert ComerOct 5, 1993 12:03 AM
Definitely let us know how the PCMCIA SCSI goes on your laptop!
#117065From: Christopher TolmieOct 5, 1993 6:33 AM
Will the PCMCIA SCSI card allow you to select its ID number? If it does, you could put it on the SCSI bus with your Amiga and allow the Amiga to read its harddrive using CrossDOS. I know others are sharing CDROM and drives doing something similar.
#117517From: James Du BoisOct 10, 1993 7:02 AM
Roger, You will never need Windoze except for those programs that think they need icons. In fact, Windoze only runs programs that you "install" the icon for. To get to another program from a floppy, for instance, you have to run the "program Filer" in order to even execute a Windoze program. If you don't need Windoze for the program, it is better to escape from Windoze and run the program from the prompt. If all you want to do is use the laptop as a POS or remote data logger, buy the cheapest laptop you can get and just use a good text editor to enter your data. Use the Amiga to manipulate the data. Not only will you save a bundle, but if something happens to the laptop, you aren't out of several months' pay to replace it. James Du Bois via AutoPilot Member of the Bermuda Triangle Exploratory Expedition 1992 – 1951