laptop to Amiga ???'s
15 messages in this thread
Gee… not only do we share the same initials, but the same
problems/questions <g>! I too have decided that a laptop would be useful,
and realize that C= is too interested in their CD32 to think about much
else!
I've been perusing alot of the PC mags to get a sense of whats available.
Judging models that I've played with at different stores, there a bunch of
things you need to think about:power, expandability, ports, screen size,
color/BW, active matrix (good contrast/color) vs passive (poorer
contrast), keyboard size, computer size and weight, mouse, battery life.
If you need is purely DOS functionality at lowest possible costs, you
would wnat something totally different than a more user friendly bright
contrasty large screen which runs something that multi-tasks (somewhat).
Unfortunately asking for a single suggestion for a PC type laptop is
similar to asking a general question about what kind of car to buy. My
suggestion is to buy some PC mags <ugh>, and visit some stores to get a
"feel" for what's out there. If you are interested in name brand (which
will cost you more), you have more of a chance finding others on CIS that
own them and can give you an opinion about specifics.
Good luck with your search!
// I'm gonna wait for
\X/ the A5000! <G> -RSL-
Roy,
I looked at and played with some laptops before I posted the message. I
also talked to some Messy-Dos types. By them the minimum system is a 386
or better, 4 megs ram, 120 meg hard drive (and that probably should be run
with "disk doubler" software),DOS6.0 and Windows3.1. Screen type, keyboard
etc. were as you suggest personal preference.
The problem is that they have very different priorities from Amiga users.
The high ram and disk requirements seem to to be based on the size of the
operating system and in particular the size of windows programs. Looking
at the system requirements for a "basic" spreadsheet, for example, is 5
megs disks space(7 recommended) and 2 megs ram(4 recommended)!!! Similar
programs take about 880k disk space on the Amiga and run easily in 1 meg
ram.
I really wasn't asking which laptop to buy, but for suggestions from Amiga
users who have had experience with them to help me learn what questions to
ask, and if there are specific things that make a laptop harder or easier
to interface with an Amiga.
i.e I learned that the BIOS is not part of Messy-Dos, there are several
different BIOSi <?> out there. Is this something I need to worry about
when I want to export data to my Amiga. The Messy-Dos types had no idea.
I'm also interested in knowing if there are Messy-Dos programs that make
it easier than others to transfer data from a laptop to the Amiga, in
particular a wordprocessor, a spread sheet and a DB.
BTW I,ve already gotten some good info from Michael Gerard and Ron Legro,
but before I Spend money on a laptop I'll take all the help I can get.
If you learn anything you think might interest me, or reach a conclusion
on system requirements and/or program compatability please let me know.
Luck to you too
// RSL Finally entering the 20th century
\\// Via Autopilot
If I may jump in here: I'm an Amiga user, and I just recently bought an
IBM-compatible laptop for work.
BIOS problems: these days, it's rare to find a BIOS that causes any problems.
Compatibility issues between various IBM clones were ironed out a few years
ago, and the differences between BIOS' these days mostly relate to custom power
management features, arcane RAM/ROM remappings and so forth. If you buy a name
brand, don't worry about it.
Transfer: There's a shareware program available on CServe called Twin Express.
You need two programs: one runs on the Amiga, one on the clone. Connect the
two with a null modem. You can then transfer files from one to the other
painlessly. Alternatively, if you're using AmigaDos 2.x or later, or have a
copy of CrossDos, you can transfer files on 720K diskettes without problems.
Except, of course, file format issues. Most IBM-clone word processors can read
and write a number of different formats, including Word Perfect (which used to
be supported on the Amiga). I've had most success with RTF, Rich Text Format,
for inter-machine wp file exchange, but I don't know that any of the Amiga WP
programs support that. Anyone?
In the spreadsheet world, DIF files are a sort of lowest common denominator.
Again, IBM-clone programs are pretty capable with different formsts; I've
imported straight ASCII comma-delimited files into Excel without a hitch, and
you can generate those files almost by just printing your spreadsheet to disk.
Database: a lowest common denominator here is either ASCII delimited or maybe
dBase format, which most everything reads and writes. I'm not really up on
Amiga db prorams, so I can't say much more.
Resources on the laptop: if you're running Windows, then your requirements
match those you listed in your post. If you're sticking with DOS, you can get
by with much less. It really depends on what you want to do with the machine,
but to run current-generation WP, SS and DB programs generally means Windows,
especially if you want to move data between them. I got myself a Toshiba
T1900, which has just been replaced by the 1950 (!) It's considered a "budget"
model, '486, monochrome, 4Mb RAM, big hard drive. It works really well, no
complaints. They have international service, it's very well made and supported.
I went with a brand name because I thought that the engineering requirements
for a good laptop were probably a little more demanding than just slapping a
desktop clone together, but you may feel differently.
If you're still looking, PC magazine had a review of forty-something different
systems in their August '93 issue. Hope the info above helps – let me know if
you have more specific questions.
–rbt
Robert,
Thanks, that's the kind of info I'm looking for. The hardest part is
knowing what questions to ask.
I think I've got the dope I need on the spread sheet and DB, and I know
Prowrite will read straight ASCII files, so now I need to find a Messy-Dos
WP that can output that( or write it to disk), or a program that can strip
the printer control codes.
I do have one specific question. I noticed that most of the laptops I've
looked at come standard with 1.44 meg floppies. Are these drives dual
format, that is can they read/write 720k also ? I'd hate to have to buy a
HD Amiga drive unless I really have to. One of those things I didn't think
to ask.
BTW if anyone thinks Amiga mags are biased try reading PC mags. Just about
every system and program is GREAT. Their idea of panning something is
saying it's a shame that it lacks some feature, but of course it has
something the others lack, very helpful :-(.
// RSL Finally entering the 20th century
\\// Via Autopilot
Roger,
Memory requirements will be a major culture shock. We are use to the
relative compactness of WB OS' ROM, RAM and HD requirements. OS/2, NT,
and even Windows seems to emulate UNIX's penchant for the need of MASSIVE
amounts of memory. I understand that although NT will operate with 8 MB
of RAM, 16 is prefered!! Compared to what could be done with the early
A1000 with 1MB of memory this is absurd (but what should we expect,
NT/Windows was written by those rocket scientists that brought us
AmigaBasic <ugh>)!
BIOS is the firmware that boots up DOS, or NT, or whatever. It is the
PC's most direct access (and used to be used heavily by game creators to
circumvent speed problems with PC's in th eolde days – I don't know if
they still "cheat"). The BIOS should effect you in the least, since your
exchange of data will be at a higher level. The easiest approach is
"SneakerNet" – just copy PC formatted disks back and forth between your
Amiga and your Laptop (remember not to use 1.4MB high density disks, or
atleast format them as lower density so that Amiga's CrossDOS will
recognize them. You could also hook the serial ports together as a null
modem and exchange data as if you were uploading/downloading thru terminal
programs on both machines. The fastest (and most absurd possibility, is
to get ethernet boards for both and hook them up as peers on a small
network (then the speeds would be amazing).
Again, the PC market is a regular "free-for-all" of vendors poping into
existance, and winking out. There old out of date models still being
sold, sometimes in the same places that sell new stuff. You can buy the
next great wonder or a museum artifact! We're probably looking for
different things in laptops to a degree. I'm interested in having access
to text in a more mobile way, and am presently considering the Compaq LTE
4/25e, which not only has a 486SL/25, but features the only active matrix
black and white large screen. The contrast is much nicer than in passive
screens and the price is lower than an active matrix color screen. The
compaq also has a docking base, which can be configured as a "second" base
computer for interfacing with my Amiga. I also want to get a little
experience with the PC world (just in case I have to depend on those
machines).
If your needs are a simple DOS tect device that inputs data and dumps
it to your Amiga, don't let people "gee whiz" you into buying something
twice the price that you really don't need. Next year the stuff their
selling now will ALL look lame (and the next year, and the next…).
As for a PC program specific to dumping data to an Amiga, I don't think
there is such an animal. The best thing is to find Amiga programs that
have compatible file formats to the PC Universe, and shift floppies with
the data. SuperBase exists on both systems, WordPerfect used to, but some
Amiga Word Processors can translate PC formats (how well, I don't know).
Unfortunately, don't expect anyone from the PC Universe to court Amiga
users (there's just too many of them and too few of us). The better
approach is to investigate Amiga software producers for file compatibility
in their products!
Good Luck (to us ALL <g>)!!!
// I'm gonna wait for
\X/ the A5000! <G> -RSL-
Roy;
Of course if you have an Ami high density drive CrossDos will work fine on
1.44 Meg diskettes.
-bill
Bill,
And if you have a high density drive you're a lucky bast…, make that
a lucky guy <g>!
// I'm gonna wait for
\X/ the A5000! <G> -RSL-
I bought several of the high density drives as "replacement" parts soon
after the first machine was shipped with them (though one of the machines
came with the high density drive in it).
-bill
Roy,
I agree that the Compaq looks like a nice machine, but it's kind of
pricey.
I've been leaning towards the Epson ActionNote 486SLC/33. It lacks a
PCMCIA slot, docking bay and that really nice active matrix display, but
it's also less than half the cost of the Compaq. It also has about the
nicest keyboard feel of any laptop I've tried that cost under $3000. With
the prices on the street of a desktop PC I don't think I'll miss the
docking bay, and since I do most of my work indoors the screen is
certainly acceptable. The lack of a PCMCIA slot is one of those things I
don't know enough about to make a decission yet.
Besides, the Epson has one distinct advantage — no Intel Inside logo.
Actually the Intel chipset is probably the best, and is guaranteed
compatible, I have no argument with that. It's just that damned logo I'm
getting to hate.
I may just wait for the Xmas sales and see what's available at clearance
prices.
I guess the real question is whether I NEED windows software or whether I
can get away with using DOS 6.0.
If I ever decide I'll let you know.
Thanks for the input.
// RSL Finally entering the 20th century
\\// Via Autopilot
Roger,
True, an active matrix B&W will cost more than a passive display, but
if you get a headache using CRT monitors for too long (like me) every bit
of screen quality improvement is worth its weight in IC grade silcon
crystal <g>. The Compaq's trackball is in an awful place (next to the
screen), but it has a lot of nice features. Since Compaq has been
announcing a bunch of new computers (pen based ones too), they are
reducing some list prices, so I too am going to wait a while. Prices are
almost guaranteed to go down as time goes on. The base unit is attrctive
to me, to improve the ease of transporting info PC <-> Amiga, not to
mention the possibility of using my SCSI CDROM for all those PC based
material!
I don't think the PCMCIA should bother you that much. It is supposed
to be a standardized means to have small interchangeable cards which act
as RAM drives, FaxModems, and ethernet boards. Unfortunately the
standard, isn't very standard, and their seems to be loads of cards that
don't work on loads of computers. The powers that be are working on it,
but for now, its Russian Roulette <g>!
Even though windows is a second rate GUI, next to WB, I'm VERY use to a
multi-tasking environment!
Good luck!
// I'm gonna wait for
\X/ the A5000! <G> -RSL-
re: PCMCIA: it's true, the PCMCIA thing hasn't settled down yet, but I wanted
my laptop to have one specifically for things like SCSI interfaces and
suchlike, without having to use the (slower) parallel port. This specifically
because my Amiga uses SCSI, so I want to get the most use out of the
peripherals I buy in the future by having them work on either machine. To
start, I've purchased an NEC portable CD-ROM; I'm in the process of getting the
PCMCIA SCSI card up, and I'll let y'all know how that works out.
re: active matrix screen. The Compaq screen was nice. Yup. But, actually the
thing that sold me finally on the Toshiba was the high quality passive matrix
display. It's got the nicest contrast and fastest response of any of the
monochrome passive matrix screens I'd seen, and I really couldn't justify the
extra money for the Compaq. Check out the T1900/1950.
–rbt
Definitely let us know how the PCMCIA SCSI goes on your laptop!
Will the PCMCIA SCSI card allow you to select its ID number? If it
does, you could put it on the SCSI bus with your Amiga and allow the
Amiga to read its harddrive using CrossDOS. I know others are sharing
CDROM and drives doing something similar.
Roger,
You will never need Windoze except for those programs that think they
need icons. In fact, Windoze only runs programs that you "install" the
icon for. To get to another program from a floppy, for instance, you have
to run the "program Filer" in order to even execute a Windoze program. If
you don't need Windoze for the program, it is better to escape from
Windoze and run the program from the prompt. If all you want to do is use
the laptop as a POS or remote data logger, buy the cheapest laptop you can
get and just use a good text editor to enter your data. Use the Amiga to
manipulate the data. Not only will you save a bundle, but if something
happens to the laptop, you aren't out of several months' pay to replace
it.
James Du Bois via AutoPilot
Member of the Bermuda Triangle Exploratory Expedition 1992 – 1951