#Dealer Sales, ETC!
8 messages in this thread
I have mixed feelings on this — while I understand what you're
getting at (and have, myself, been bothered at times by the inclusion
of, for example, Matrox information in a thread I started myself
asking for help on Altamira), I also have benefited greatly from
information on products, both hardware and software, that are related
to 3DS.
I would think a good general rule is that if a forum member solicits
opinions/ information on a particular hardware/software item or
category, then it would be perfectly permissible for dealers to
provide their opinions — biased or not. But dealers should (and for
the most part, do) refrain from "jumping in" where angels fear to
tread, and should contain their discussions to the topic posted in
the thread (and that way, individuals, like myself, who don't care
about Targa boards can either not select that thread or simply delete
it without reading).
In other words, if I ask what kind of deck I should consider for
single frame use given a certain set of parameters, I would expect
(and miss if it were not forthcoming) as much dialog from as many
people and/or dealers (sic) as possible. On the other hand, if we're
discussing a particular piece of equipment (say I've posted a message
on a problem/question/query on the 7750) I wouldn't want to have
people jump in and tell me that it's crap, that I should consider the
DVP, or the MVP, or the ASPCA, or some other wonder gizmo.
I just go through composing a message saying that one of the things I
most admired about this forum is that it DOESN'T pertain just to 3DS
directly, but all the ancillary things that we need to know and use
for its support.
We see this the same way, my major difficulty is when dealers hop in
on threads to try to sell things, and then use the carnival pitch,
"Winner every time!".
I'd like to see threads approached from the standpoint of, just state
what you know as fact, and/or have personally experienced.
I wouldn't directly comment on the LVR series because, I don't have
one, and haven't used one for an extended period of time. I have
dumped frames to a disk on a project before, but I don't really
consider that enough experience to try to influence someone looking
at the deck. Now in an open arena, dealers could shout and yell and
pitch products all day long. I wouldn't care. I'd just tune the forum
out. Then if some one like yourself wanted to purchase something,
they could hop onto that forum and let all of the dealers go crazy,
trying to undercut each others prices and sell you on their
particular pieces of equipment. Kinda like tossing a piece of meat
into a pack of dogs.
However, in an atmosphere that is seemingly set up for tech
support/troubleshooting/ and tips/techniques, we really don't need to
be constantly bombarded with pitches and sales rhetoric. I get
complaints from people all the time regarding this, and I just
thought that instead of losing forum members and watching this turn
into a sales arena, I'd speak up and see if something couldn't be
done.
Clear/concise/accurate reviews should be just that, not "well John
said that Ted had seen Karen, dumping some frames to a deck and it
worked flawlessly!, and by the way I can get you the deck for the
low,low price of 19.95"
P.S. – Keep in mind, that this particular sales problem has only
arisen over the last year, and has only really gotten out of hand
during the last 4 or 5 months.
Lets see if we can't either get a dealer area going or limit all
sales pitches to the want adds or something.
Just to jump in here, I'd not like to lose the discussions of hardware
and I don't think it's practical to expect humans to discuss topics
without reverting to ranting and raving at various times. I
*definitely* think that a section ought to be created for
Dealers/Sales, etc. so the snarling and flying body parts don't
distract the rest of us. <g>
I'm not against hardware discussions, I live for them!
I'm trying to address the dog and pony show, accompanied by
misinformation, directly oriented at selling hardware.
The fact that you'd *definately* like to see the dealer pitches
removed to seperate area seems to parallel my desires.
I'll echo the opinion that the dealer input is necessary. I would be
in favor of a new Dealer/Sales section to eliminate sales pitches
cloaked in help responses. Don't leave the forum, your messages
have been quite informative.
I don't see that I've said anything too original, I'm restating what
many have already said so it looks like a mandate in your favor from
the teeming millions.
I agree with you. I enjoy the blatant sales pitches as much as I
enjoy the emotionally overblown arguments that pop up on this forum
from time to time. Nothing like a cool, rational head, right <g>?.
Thing is, it's part of human nature, and I'll guess that it can't be
erradicated completely.
Your comments have already slowed the excessive sales banter a bit,
and I'm sure that as those who do this sort of thing drop in on the
threads we'll see it ebb to a minimum… for a while.
On the other hand, there's good info to be had even in a blatant sales
pitch, and I've been relying on this forum for 3DS and related
hardware/software info for almost a year now. It's been invaluable,
and I don't want that to change. I'm willing to put up with the
occasional salesman-gone-out-of-control: seems like a small price to
pay, as long as it can be brought back into check when things get out
of hand.
The problem with threads losing their continuity, I think, is related
to the way communications software interfaces with CIS. This isn't
always the case, I know, but there are a lot of times where you just
hit the "reply" button and address a certain part of a message, and
bingo, the face of the thread changes. And I defy anyone to
consistently include ONLY the subject of the thread in every sentence
of the message. The problem as I see it is that you can't reply to a
message and change the name of the thread at the same time (at least
not with WINCIM).
As far as open sales pitches go, I'll agree with Paul Lind. It seems
the 3D Studio world is growing exponentially, and with it comes an
increase in all flavors: helpfulness, greed, apathy, passion. Let's
hope we can get a balance without a witch hunt and without losing key
forum people like Paul and Kevin.
Yep, I understand (actually, my degree is in Communication, so I guess
I should understand this stuff a little). Actually, I was struck
most in this thread by how many bright and clear thinking minds
frequent this forum. So many times I wanted to say "Yes!" or "That's
correct", when Paul or Kevin, Greg, Gus or you made some excellent
points. And those I disagree with in part still made some very
eloquent remarks.
I suspect that we all are close to agreement — we seem to love the
interaction (or we wouldn't be here regularly), we need the
information (or we wouldn't pass out our own), and we strive for
clarity (or we wouldn't wrestle so hard with issues like "to quote or
not to quote — what WAS the question?"). I'm glad Kevin (it WAS him
wasn't it who started all this?) shouted "Enough!" and it seemed to
work. I'm equally glad that no rigid forms of censorship have to be
imposed. I'm very pissed that the Forum Gods moved this discussion
arbitrarily here — as I might not have found it otherwise, and I
think it belongs where it started. And I think that a little (but
only a little) quoting is necessary for context, Greg, and I think
you handle that just fine.
And as for WinCim (and boy, is THIS program unintuitive for Windows!),
I guess the best way I've seen of handling it is to just create a
forum message with the topic when it obviously changes, even if that
means you have to go to the trouble of readdressing it (I have all
the interesting people in my address book — and it's a LONG list
with the likes of you clever guys and gals here).
And now with this thread in an area I don't download, I guess I'll
have to change my habits for a bit until it's finished (by checking
awaiting messages as well as downloading the whole 3D Support forum).