CompuServe Thread

3DS vs. Topas

5 messages in this thread
#63165From: James Coulter[Mindscape]Oct 24, 1993 9:58 PM
I would like "second" your posts, Don, per your comparison of 3DSr2 vs Topas r4.2. I have recently purchased my own copy of 3DSr2 (via free r3 upgrage promo), although I have used 3DS extensively in the past years at WMU. Since graduation I have subcontracted for a tiny company that has Topas and didn't know how to use it. My first task at my new employment was to complete a large (well, 5 min of anim) project using Topas 4.2. I must admit that I dislike Topas primarily because of its interface. However, having learned it by necessity, I have also learned to respect its merits. I, too, have just recently found out about the CG $750 Topas offer for those who own 3DS. I am _considering_ taking CG up on their offer before it expires on 10/30/93. I might be worth it for that price. For those of you also making this consideration, I would like to add to Don's comments. I will offer some informal observations that should benefit people who will be learing Topas and who are coming from a bakcground of 3DS and most CAD software. First up, my three biggest minuses of Topas. – The modeling approach of Topas is quite dissimalar to most CAD software in the sense that the construction plane is attached to the camera and is a fixed distance from the camera. This is especially annoying to people like myself who like to model on a construciton plane that is isometic to the viewport. This can be overcome by using the "Scene" camera in T4.2 for modeling and the "Directors" camera for viewing. Topas does have a 3-view mode that, I feel, is absolutely useless. Each port in the 3-view mode is, again, attached to the camera. If the viewing angle is changed in any of the three views, the camera and other two veiws change to remain othonganal (to the veiw that was just changed). By contrast, most CAD software, including the 3DS Editor, allow viewports to be manipulated independently of other viewports. This allows the user make the most efficient use of multiple views. For example, I often find it helpful to use two orthogonal views for exact positioning of objects during construction, and a third isometric view for a 3D representation of what I am doing. I have personally found this type of modelling functionality lacking in Topas. – Camera manipulation in Topas is very different from than in 3DS and most CAD apps. In Topas, the camera interface is designed to represent that of a real camera. Hence, it is easy to get lost in 3D space. The effect is similar to looking through a high powered camera (or pair of binoculars) and losing the losing the indended viewing target when you pivot the camera. You can aviod this drawback by saving a "good" camera positon to disk and recalling it when you get lost. This is a real kludge to those of us accustomed to clicking a "zoom to fit" tool (or moving the camera target from othogonal views) and then zooming back in, once our bearings are regained. After using Topas for some time
#63265From: Don LandisOct 25, 1993 11:50 AM
Thanks for the reply, James. Your message was cut off just as you were getting started. Your comments were very specific and very true. Your message would be valuable to those at CG for future development of Topas ver.
#63461From: James Coulter[Mindscape]Oct 26, 1993 12:27 PM
Continued from my posts RE: 3DS vs. Topas #63165 – Camera manipulation in Topas is very different from than in 3DS and most CAD apps. In Topas, the camera interface is designed to represent that of a real camera. Hence, it is easy to get lost in 3D space. The effect is similar to looking through a high powered camera (or pair of binoculars) and losing the losing the indended viewing target when you pivot the camera. You can aviod this drawback by saving a "good" camera positon to disk and recalling it when you get lost. This is a real kludge to those of us accustomed to clicking a "zoom to fit" tool (or moving the camera target from othogonal views) and then zooming back in, once our bearings are regained. After using Topas for some time, you learn to only move your camera in "increments" (ie. multiples of 5 degrees). In this way you can always "get back" by following your incremental bread crumbs. I personally feel that this imposes an unnecessary overhead on the user (who is already trying to keep track of five to twenty other things associated with any 3D scene construction). – The user interface is a maze of menus. Even after months of use I found myself annoyed by the fact that I had to wade around the interface to find that one pick. Just imagine if all of the menu possibilites in the five 3DS modules were all clumped into one big pull-down menu bar. Some people may like this style, but I prefer the "module" approach where similar operations are handled in their own area. I feel modules promote an organized approach to constructing an animation. Here are some plusses that Topas has over 3DS. The latter two of these "plusses" are not applicable to CAD software since they do not deal with modeling. + Topas 4.2 incorporates some powerful 3D spline editing features that are usefull in character animation. For example T4.2 allows the user to "twist" a spline object. The twist feature is not available in 3DSr2 (unless you get the Twist IPAS from the Yost Group). + Topas 4.2 makes it very easy to animate the surface texture, color, and transpareny of an object. In 3DSr2 the user really have to jump through some hoops just to get an object and its shadow to effectively fade away. Furthermore, T4.2 can apply multiple texture maps to a singe object. + T4.2 has NTSC color checking. 3DSr2 does not. Well, that was my three major downs and ups for T4.2 vs. 3DSr2. I think it is obvios that I see 3DS as the more superior software for my needs. I also agree that Topas has its merits. You are probably aware that r3 of 3DS neutralizes some of my Topas pluses. Still, I will wait for Crystal Graphics to make their next showing (in release 5 of Topas) before I compare the next generation of 3DS to Topas.
#63536From: MARTIN G FOSTEROct 26, 1993 4:03 PM
very nice report. But why are you comparing 3dsr2 to Topas 4.2? Release 3 is the currently shipping version and has been out for almost a month. 4.2 is the currently shipping version of Topas. I think you should be comparing currently shipping versions. With that in mind 2 of your 3 points are eliminated and r3's new ease-of-use features and slightly re-organized side menus make the interface even better. I suppose this will all change to icons one day, but for now the interface is just very efficient. Your point about the twist is valid, but my counterpoint to that is that you could buy the twist and a whole collection of other IPAS routines (which Topas doesn't offer) for $300 and still be under the retail price of Topas.
#63586From: Yost GroupOct 26, 1993 8:15 PM
(of course, you can twist objects in the lofter…)