CompuServe Thread

#Slow Speed PAR Problems?

21 messages in this thread
#91688From: Erik FlomOct 2, 1994 3:13 PM
I've got a question about using the PAR, and can't find any help in the documentation. I'm hoping someone else here has found a way around this problem. I've been trying to play stuff back at 15fps, but the video keeps breaking up. When I play the segment at 30fps, it plays back just fine – you'd think playing at 15fps would be no problem! All I'm doing is taking a sequence of RGB images, importing them into the PAR, and trying to play it back at 15fps. As far as I can tell, you don't need to do anything special. Am I doing something wrong, or is this how the slower speed playback works?!? Thanks, & Keep On Toastin' Erik Flom – ELF Works 3D Construction Co.
#91696From: Sean HannonOct 2, 1994 4:38 PM
Erik, To get the smooth playback all you have to do is select the "Slow Play" button (just to the right of the "Stop" button), set the play speed to 15 fps, and then >>> select the FRAME/FIELD toggle and set it to play FIELDs. You'll get smooth 15 fps playback, but you'll only be seeing single fields, not full frames. You can also choose which field, 1 or 2, you want to see. It's still a mystery to me why some pieces of animation of video footage have this glitchy breakup during playback and others do not. I think there needs to be a better way to explain to the cyber-technically challenged among us how PAR's Q-Factor and Block Limit can be understood with real world examples of getting the optimum squeeze out of it. Sean Hannon Ad Rats – Stamford, CT
#91710From: Erik FlomOct 2, 1994 6:40 PM
Thanks much for the response! I hadn't tried setting the Field mode on. I just tried it, and it works great! Losing one field is kind of a pain though…. BTW, I just DL'd the latest version of their s/w (PAR v2.28, & TBC-IV v2.5) from their BBS. If interested, I could UL it here. Thanks again, & Keep On Toastin' Erik Flom – ELF Works 3D Construction Co.
#91698From: Peter GreciOct 2, 1994 5:17 PM
So,mewhat unrelated. Read in Cinefex that the DPS PAR was used for some FX shots in the FX abundant "True Lies" movie with Arnorld and Jamie Lee Curtis On the AMIGA no less Member of the Association of Media Professionals
#91711From: Erik FlomOct 2, 1994 6:43 PM
Hmm. I wonder what capacity it was used in? Did the output actually show up on screen, or were they using it for previewing dailies? Interesting factoid though….. Keep On Toastin' Erik Flom – ELF Works 3D Construction Co.
#91792From: Peter GreciOct 3, 1994 3:47 PM
It was used for some of the harrier footage. I think for some rotoscoping work. Pick up Cinefex cool rag Also Elastic Reality was cited as being used in WOLF starring Jack Nicholson. Member of the Association of Media Professionals
#91798From: Erik FlomOct 3, 1994 4:42 PM
Sounds interesting. Thanks for the details. Also, it seems like ER is being used for everything these days? (And it does Windows, too! :^) Keep On Toastin' Erik Flom – ELF Works 3D Construction Co.
#91861From: Peter GreciOct 4, 1994 4:14 PM
Yupper, seems interesting. Wonder how ER is in comparison to Morph Plus which I did NOT like Member of the Association of Media Professionals
#91918From: Erik FlomOct 4, 1994 11:58 PM
I really haven't had much cause to do morphing recently…… It's too bad – I had a copy of ER on that ShaBLAMM! system I was running (the MIPS version no less!), and I didn't have time to even do more than boot it up! Keep On Toastin' Erik Flom – ELF Works 3D Construction Co.
#91955From: Peter GreciOct 5, 1994 3:49 PM
oh Well, no more Morphing 'Vette's eh? Member of the Association of Media Professionals
#91968From: Erik FlomOct 5, 1994 7:59 PM
Nope, no more 'Vettes. :^( Actually, that reminds me. I've got to re-render that old scene for my demo reel! Thanks! Keep On Toastin' Erik Flom – ELF Works 3D Construction Co.
#91818From: Stephen K. PooleOct 3, 1994 10:45 PM
I've run into this same problem (I'm using the low end Seagate drive, what are you using?), and while I don't have any definite answers as to why it happens, it seems counterintuitive, I can tell you how I handle it. Using the map function, I check to see what kind of block rate transfer I'll get where my animation will be recorded. Then, if I'll be slowing it down, I set the block limit and q-factor to limit the block size to about 10% less than the map function shows. This seems to work, and lets me play back at 15 fps without resorting to single fields. Stephen
#91827From: Erik FlomOct 4, 1994 1:12 AM
It probably isn't drive related, since I had trouble with a Micropolis 2210A, and then with the current 2217A (1.6GB) drive. The best solution to the problem seems to be to use a new feature of the importer. When importing the images, you can choose to duplicate each image a set number of times. In essence, it makes duplicate copies of each frame, so you achieve 15 fps by playing the each frame twice, at 30fps. (Go figger?!?) 'Using the map function…' Oh wow, so that's what those numbers along the top are for?!? (I've really got to start paying more attention. :^) Thanks for the tips! Keep On Toastin' Erik Flom – ELF Works 3D Construction Co.
#91888From: Stephen K. PooleOct 4, 1994 8:13 PM
>> to use a new feature of the importer I'll have to look into that. My technique developed out of a need to slow down real time video. PAR is a wonder tool! Stephen
#91917From: Erik FlomOct 4, 1994 11:58 PM
I have to admit that I've found the PAR to be an incredibly useful device! And every new version of the software just keeps making it better. You could probably use the new import feature, combined with their YUV exporter to resample captured sequences at slower frame rates…… Keep On Toastin' Erik Flom – ELF Works 3D Construction Co.
#91970From: Stephen K. PooleOct 5, 1994 8:20 PM
>> You could probably use the new import feature, combined with their YUV >> exporter to resample captured sequences at slower frame rates….. Interesting… and then I wouldn't have to kick down the Q factor to make the slo-mo work, so my image quality would improve. This definitely bears investigation. Thanks. Stephen
#91992From: Erik FlomOct 6, 1994 1:29 AM
Actually, the reason I mentioned the YUV exporter is that they claim it's a proprietary format that allows you to process the PAR frames w/o any degradation. Though I have as yet to try it, it seems perfect for your situation. Keep us informed?!? Keep On Toastin' Erik Flom – ELF Works 3D Construction Co.
#92202From: Anthony RamirezOct 9, 1994 4:38 PM
>I've been trying to play stuff back at 15fps, but the video keeps >breaking up. When I play the segment at 30fps, it plays back just fine – >you'd think playing at 15fps would be no problem! Yeah I thought the same thing when I first used the PAR and tried it. The reason is because the PAR has to re-read the image 30 times a sec regeadless of the speed it is playing back at. So if you set it for 15 fps it will read the image from the HD twice meaning the HD head has to read/back-up, read/back-up, ect… I haven't tried the field trick but the only other way is to use more compression so that the head doesn't have to move around so much. <<< Tony D. Tracer >>> (Any render time >0 needs acceleration.)
#92259From: Erik FlomOct 10, 1994 12:06 PM
Thanks for the feedback! The latest version of the s/w allows you to dupe frames as they're imported. By duping each frame, I end up w/ an animtion twice as long as the original, but it plays back cleanly. Later, Erik Flom
#92280From: John BunnellOct 10, 1994 4:58 PM
Erik, a couple of other things seem to cause that as well…make sure you have the loop button off, the frame and field switch to the proper one (however you rendered it) and last but not least do a cleanup on your HD it will defrag your anim and put the sectors together. I have had the flashing grid problem many times and using one or more of the above methods has worked for me. jmb
#92303From: Erik FlomOct 10, 1994 7:48 PM
Fortunately, about the only time I run into any breakups w/ the PAR is when trying to run stuff at slow speeds. Usually, I just set the block limit to 240, and forget it. Once or twice, I had some breakups, but it was when the disk was full. As you pointed out, once the drive is defragmented, it goes away. Thanks! Keep On Toastin' Erik Flom – ELF Works 3D Construction Co.