CompuServe Thread

Dataset piracy

13 messages in this thread
#43383From: Wayne ColeSep 10, 1994 1:28 AM
John, As someone who stands to (theoretically, anyway;^} loose money on this, I will be happy to pass particulars along to Viewpoint if you feel uncomfortable doing so. In fact, if I had an "Uncle Vinnie" with 'freinds' in New York, I'd tell him too! wmc – via Autopilot!
#43400From: SyndesisSep 11, 1994 2:05 PM
I think Viewpoint's known about it for a long time. It's just another example of "pirate tools." I'm not sure what exactly they can bust him for… selling a key is one thing. Selling a program that performs a hot-patch on an executable to unlock it is another. Or what about even giving away the secret to the encryption over the Internet? In lawyer's terms, I'd think the most clearly "actionable" item is selling the key. Given the openness which other pirating tools exist (dongle crackers, disk copiers, etc) exist, I'm not sure what they could prosecute them for. On the other hand, it's clear that some sort of damage has been done, and could result in civil suits.
#43404From: Tom Patrick-InnoVision TSep 11, 1994 8:03 PM
Hi, I've read you for a long time here and always appreciate you thoughtful insights into things. I posted eleswhere, during an Alpha Paint thread some thoughts on Piracy, copy protection and such and would like to know your thoughts. We've worked closely with the FBI and SPA with great results. I would submit that one of the reasons the Amiga had problems getting Devs. to port or create is the P word and the causal way programs are shared. People either can't read the licence agreements or don't care or both. Peolple seem to think its Ok to get on the net and sell stolen prop. or download a program from a P-BBS to try it then make money with it and not pay the creator one dime. It's no wonder true innovation rarely happens. We must find a way to protect inventors/developers, make it easy for the users and not get in the way of ideas or growth. Products of the company I work for are continually ripped off and we're tired of it. I can see why Scala and other have gone the dongal route. I've also seen some neg. comments on this and don't really understand them. Your thoughts and a discussion of this this would be appreciated by many. It is many peoples fear that if users don't start supporting developers that there won't be any anymore. I'm not sure that's true…but close. Tom Patrick
#43413From: SyndesisSep 12, 1994 1:57 PM
I was once tempted to think that piracy existed to a higher degree on the Amiga platform. Now I'm not so sure. I guess I've found just as muany unscrupulous pirates using PCs and Macs. People who collect everything related to the topics they like to investigate or play with or use for business… Speaking of the SPA and FBI, I've even seen far too many large companies who are members of the SPA who are not absolutists when it comes to enforcing licenses within their own company. For this reason, I take a dim view of the SPA. I think its annual estimates of piracy are entirely the wrong approach to the problem. Like many other ethical issues, I think a personal approach is much better. People need to realize that piracy does affect many small, innovative software developers who are nowhere as rich as Bill(ion) Gates.
#43429From: Tom Patrick-InnoVision TSep 12, 1994 10:33 PM
Thanks John, On the SPA numbers…I was wondering about that too.
#43436From: Arnie CachelinSep 13, 1994 11:13 AM
Of Course on the PC, you have (hopefully) enough paying volume to survive despite HUGE piracy, particularly in Asia… not so many Amigas there… If you only care about the 1st 50000 users of your product to recoup costs, then selling 100,000 and having 1 million copies in use is not so mortal a wound. I have been skeptical of the implicit assumption that every pirated copy of software represents a lost sale.
#43446From: Marlene Zenker/SYSOPSep 13, 1994 5:09 PM
Every pirated copy doesn't equal a lost sale. However, I do believe that some percentage does equal lost sales. I'm sure we're in agreement about all this, but one more point: "If you only care about the 1st 50000 users of your product to recoup costs, then selling 100,000 and having 1 million copies in use is not so mortal a wound." What about some of the other 900,000 who call up and try and get technical support for a product they never bought? That hurts the company too. The company's response might simply be "If you don't have a registration here, no support", but it still costs the company time and money to answer that call.
#43450From: SyndesisSep 13, 1994 10:35 PM
I guess that's why NewTek put a dongle on the standalone LightWave, huh? 🙂 How many companies do you know that are only in business to "recoup costs"? Nine-tenths piracy is killer. Companies need continuous sales to stay afloat, and growth to survive. Advertising dollars and other promotion costs are "selling" to pirate as well as regular customers… now your ad dollars are 1/10 as effective. What next?
#43455From: Arnie CachelinSep 14, 1994 10:51 AM
The 1/10 figure is purely hypothetical right… I was merely pointing out that at X% piracy, a company with a base of 10million potential users can survive where a company with 1million potential users may not. This is based on the perhaps absurd assumption that the development costs are more-or-less the same regardless of the number of potential users. Dongles are of debatable effectiveness, but all's fair in love and war.. I'm still waiting to see a company with the balls enough or so little to lose that they employ active countermeasures in their software… what would be a company's liability if their SW reformatted the users HD when he ran an illegal copy? Considering that they have no liability when they trash a users system by accident…
#43462From: Marlene Zenker/SYSOPSep 14, 1994 5:43 PM
I believe a well-known Amiga personality who I won't name here was asked to put a "don't pirate" message in some software once, and accidently screwed it up. The customers were very upset to get that message. I think that if a company had a program that would reformat a disk if the copy was illegal, they'd be sued bigtime.
#43470From: Peter WadeSep 15, 1994 4:36 PM
> I think that if a company had a program that would reformat a disk if > the copy was illegal, they'd be sued bigtime. I heard that one large software company released an application which contained a message saying "formatting hard disc now" if it detected an attempt to bypass the copy protection. Someone got the message when his key disc went faulty and he sued the company for mental anguish. Peter Wade Autopiloting from London, England
#43467From: Wayne ColeSep 15, 1994 4:23 AM
>>Dongles are of debatable effectiveness Not only that, they are extremely obtrusive to a multitasking system where you may want to use two dongled tools simultaneously but only have one "dongle port" available. Most dongles don't pass through or stack very well. wmc – via Autopilot!
#43475From: SyndesisSep 15, 1994 11:12 PM
As we all know about piracy, it's tough to determine the rate of piracy on a given product. A company only sees its sales, and I'd argue that the size of the company will change to reflect the sales figures. The installation of Chicago has an optional section that dials your modem and sends the registration info directly to Microsoft. It may or may not be sending additional information about what's in your system. Didn't an early version of Prodigy's software search your hard disk for mailing addresses?