CompuServe Thread

#Educ Disc RWar

8 messages in this thread
#126197From: SyndesisSep 29, 1994 10:02 AM
You can't get me to defend educational discounts. I don't think they build brand loyalty, I think they foster a I'm- special- I- demand- a- discount attitude that only causes people to search for more discounts. I've got at least two messages here on my desk from people looking for educational discounts. One guy, I know he's called every time we release a new product. We've given him the same answer, no, we don't give educational discounts, every time he's called for the past five years. I'll often say, "Gee, will your college give me a discount because I'm a software developer?" or "I didn't get a discount on tuition when I went to school." I'd be tempted to think that Autodesk's educational discount prices are due to their success in the CAD market. I'm sure they regard their educational discounts as a way to protect their incredible market share. Like Novell, you gain an incredible momentum from having a network of educational institutions who teach your product, as well as dealers, consultants, etc. that have their careers built around your product. (Cynic in me says that complicated, difficult to configure programs will always have an advantage in this respect.) But these days, all the big players have educational discounts. College bookstores of any size have a software section with incredible discounts. I choked, too, when I saw the prices. Again, I don't see the "why" here. It's because students are poor? Students who are able to buy $2000 computer systems, but aren't smart enough to budget for software, too? Or because students really need to set up a full-featured "home office" / learning lab because they don't want to walk in the rain to use the hundreds of computers that the University persuaded the legislature that they need to "keep up?" On the other hand, piracy plays a big part in this, too. If 3DS was unprotected, how many yahoos with a network of 486SXes and pirated 3DS would you be fighting when it comes to discount rendering? So far, you've avoided my questions about how you plan to differentiate yourself from these discount animators. Really, I'm trying to help. Other people here on the forum might have some ideas, too.
#126202From: SyndesisSep 29, 1994 10:12 AM
To start another thread, exactly how did you determine that 3DS in regular form costs "too much" but that the educational price isn't "too much"? Compared to what? Yes, I'm a Midwesterner, and I read the "Tightwad Gazette" regularly, grow my own vegetables, make my own jam, and mow my own 2-acre lawn. The road outside my office is the same red paving bricks that were there a hundred years ago. The town paper still reports things like "Mr. and Mrs. So-and-so were guests at the Harris residence on Saturday night." I'll always give advice like "Computers are a profoundly bad investment." In terms of re-sale value, software is right up there with a truck full of tomatoes. After a while, it's tough to give it away. On the other hand, there's nothing like a fresh tomato. 🙂
#126236From: roger cussonSep 29, 1994 1:34 PM
John…. PMJI….BUT….I really think you are going a littl overboard here on the educational pricing issue. If you as me (you may decide not to..:-)…) the educational pricing issue has been manufactured buy the software developers themselves. Case in point you buy 10 stations for a lab.. sets you back $20,000 then software.. AutoCAD $ 15,000 Microstation $ 3,000. Which one do you choose? Which one does my bean counter choose, who just got $1,000,000 cut from his operational budget. What happens when all those students hit the job market. So Now look at it from the employers side… lets see I have ready trained students on Mstation and a learning curve on ACAD to fend with So as an employer (if I'm not computerized) choose Mstation because it becommes cheaper to implement. I personally believe educational discounts is good for the long term viability of a software manufacturer. Make them pay for it, try to make sure they protect it, but if you ask them the full price you will not get it. Roger C.
#126253From: SyndesisSep 29, 1994 3:10 PM
Yes, I agree, it's the seller (the software companies) who are doing this. Obviously, in any bid situation, one player can undercut the other. And bean-counters don't care about tech specs or the market of software or popularity *unless* the educator demands it. Don't blame the bean-counters, blame the person buying the software. If you can't explain the difference between AutoCAD and Microstation to your higher-ups, then maybe it really makes no difference which one you buy. For that matter, you might be able to buy 20 copies of a $100 program, too. What happens when those students hit the job market? Oh, the employers learn they can't read and write, dress themselves, or behave in public, just like any other new employees. 🙂
#126352From: Roger DanielsenSep 29, 1994 11:30 PM
Hi, Roger. This is Roger. <g> I don't think you'll find too many people who will argue about putting software in a computer lab. But what about the who knows how many people who know someone who has a student ID, who are just looking for good pricing? Roger D.
#126509From: roger cussonSep 30, 1994 5:44 PM
Hey.. Yes, and even though it was a while ago I still remember what it was like to be a student. Food on the table first, then books (mabye), computer software???? Unlikely…. Roger C.
#126348From: Roger DanielsenSep 29, 1994 11:29 PM
John, If quality has ever come to be the question, I don't think I've ever lost one yet (fingers crossed). I'm not doing terrible, but I do have some time free now again. I can't tell you there's only a finite amount of money for everything needed, and a couple more of those thousand dollar renderings would help pay the bills off a lot faster, even if they do end up being more work that they're worth. But to be honest, I think my biggest advantage has been all my previous work and life experience. It helps me get the point of what's needed or wanted a lot faster. It is difficult in this region, though. A lot of the work seems to go to the bigger media towns. I'm real close to relocating. Now if I can only get Autodesk to stop subsidizing my competitors, that might help too. <g> Roger D.
#126388From: SyndesisSep 30, 1994 8:18 AM
So who are your typical clients around Milwaukee? Overall, I can't help but think that the demand for computer animation should be growing and growing.