CompuServe Thread

#Flashing Faces

16 messages in this thread
#127179From: Roger DanielsenOct 4, 1994 10:23 PM
Gary, Recently on 2 separate animations I've all of a sudden started developing a phenomenon I can only describe as flashing faces. In one case, it's a house where the soffit or the surface under the overhang has a couple of separate faces that decide to flash a couple, 3, 4 times over the course of a 500 frame animation. I've played with smoothing groups, gone in to try to make sure there aren't any duplicate faces. There are only 2 keys in the entire animation. Both are camera moves. No light keys. One shadowcasting spot overhead to simulate the sun. One non-shadowcasting light at about an equal angle underneath to simulate a reflected light. I'm really puzzled. Got any hints what might cause a face just to go blooey all of a sudden? Maybe something I could have screwed up in the set file? Help! I've rendered this thing 4 times at 15 hours apiece. Roger D.
#127189From: Jonas Ruikis [ADESK]Oct 4, 1994 10:56 PM
Hi Roger, << .. developing a phenomenon I can only describe as flashing faces. … Both are camera moves >> How close is the camera coming to the objects that display this effect? When you view one of the files where the effect occurs, describe what you see, is the texture map missing from the face(s) or is the texture map distorted? jonas[adesk]
#127241From: Roger DanielsenOct 5, 1994 8:52 AM
Hi Jonas <<..How close is the camera coming to the objects that display this effect?..>> 96-Units. ..?.. <<..is the texture map missing from the face(s) ..>> no texture map, one-sided Phong material. ..?.. Roger D.
#127213From: Yost GroupOct 5, 1994 1:06 AM
There are almost always one of two reasons for flashing faces: 1) Coplanar geometry imported from a CAD program. 2) Shadow-mapped light sources with shadow maps that don't have enough resolution. Did you get the geometry from a CAD system or did you make it with 3DS? And… are you using shadow-mapped lights? – G
#127363From: Roger DanielsenOct 5, 1994 8:45 PM
Gary, The offending piece was created inside Studio. It appears as though it was all smoothing group problems. I'm going to have to go back and read up on smoothing groups, but a flat surface consisting of 6 faces should all fall within the same smoothing group, shouldn't it? Whenever I autosmooth this thing, it puts the same surface in 3 different smoothing groups. Somehow this is what the problem seems to be. One of the faces that's in a different smoothing group than the one next to it all of a sudden flashes every once in a while. I do have the shadow map size down to about 600, but I ran it all the way up to 2000 with the same results. Also it wasn't just autosmooth. This piece lofted like that. It's not exactly a real complex piece of geometry. It's just basically a square, flat cube with a notch out of the middle of one side. The whole underside only consists of 6 faces. Like I said, the only way I can get it to render is to remove all smoothing completely. ????? Roger D.
#127404From: Yost GroupOct 6, 1994 12:04 AM
From your message to Alan, it sounds like you found some coplanar faces in there. Is that true? – G
#127219From: Kouros MoghaddamOct 5, 1994 1:35 AM
Roger, Was this mesh imported from Acad (DXF). I'd like to know cause it has happened to me too. -Kouros
#127364From: Roger DanielsenOct 5, 1994 8:45 PM
Kouros, See my message to Gary regarding smoothing groups. That's one of the major problems I've had with Autocad imports also. Roger D.
#127261From: ALAN IGLESIASOct 5, 1994 10:45 AM
In addition to what Gary has mentioned, Roger, I have had the flashing face problem a couple of times with objects that have been through a few Boolean operations. The more typical problems I've had after boolean ops are the occasional flat face which doesn't always render the same as it's co-planar brothers, and Auto-Smooth just doesn't seem to work. In these cases, I've detached *just the surface invloved* as a seperate object, done the Auto-Smooth op (try different settings and check with the real-time renderer in Optimize.PXP, if you've got it), and re-attached. It has worked well this way for me. Once, by mistake, I partially cut off a rounded corner with a flat Boolean subtraction, and the renderer would flash the face as if it wasn't sure if the surface was smoothed or a hard corner. I re-booleaned the area with a proper amount of curvature, and it rendered fine. Hope this helps a little, -Alan
#127386From: Roger DanielsenOct 5, 1994 10:23 PM
Thanks, Alan. Shortly after I posted the last message, I did find some co-planar faces that I swear I have no idea how they got there. But I have been working on and off with this thing for a couple of months, so who knows? I found them by selecting the faces that should be there, splitting them off, and looking at what was left. There were three faces that basically just formed an edge to the object. I deleted those, and now Autosmooth works properly. It was taking up multiple smoothing groups to do one flat plane. Now it's only one. Wouldn't it be cool to have a check object for co-planar faces button? Or delete co-planar faces? Thanks, Alan, and everyone else. Roger D.
#127402From: Yost GroupOct 6, 1994 12:01 AM
Ah ha! There were coplanar faces… (I knew it.) – G
#127656From: DONALD NEWLANDSOct 7, 1994 2:28 AM
A) Will Optimize remove coplanar faces? B) Isn't the DXF import routine in R3 supposed to weed out redundant faces? -Donald
#127680From: Jonas Ruikis [ADESK]Oct 7, 1994 8:46 AM
Hi Donald, << A) Will Optimize remove coplanar faces? >> I don't think so. << B) Isn't the DXF import routine in R3 supposed to weed out redundant faces? >> It welds coincident vertices based on the WELD-THRESHHOLD parameter (pg 3-38 ref.man.), not faces.
#127708From: CyberdreamsOct 7, 1994 11:13 AM
I thought a post talked about Optimize removing coplaner faces with a setting of "one in the bais" or somthing . I too would like to know if this will work… -Brandon
#127734From: Jonas Ruikis [ADESK]Oct 7, 1994 1:02 PM
Cyberdreams.. << I thought a post talked about Optimize removing coplaner faces with a setting of "one in the bais" or somthing >> The Bias parameter is used to prevent long thin faces (slivers). The range is 0-1. See pg 39. of your Disk #7 manual. jonas[adesk]
#127801From: Yost GroupOct 7, 1994 8:25 PM
The best way to remove coplanar faces in 3DSr3 is to import the DXF file with the REMOVE-DOUBLE-FACES switch ON. If you've got a 3DS model that you'd like to do this to, export it as a DXF and then re-import it. The Optimize PXP, however, only optimizes geometry… it doesn't look for double faces. – G