#Why I won't upgrade
19 messages in this thread
Small group of people…c'mon…NT is even fewer (-:
The next logical step in the evolution of 3DS is of course of the
workstation…not keep on intel.
Look, how about giving the users a choice
1) DOS/Windows 2) NT 3) Unix/X
Using a portable UI tookit this is a doable code.
Jeff
You missed the point. You're so obsessed with your assumption you failed to
understand the single most important reason why NT is a more obvious (read
Marketing) choice. NT is Windows and NT is DOS. The choice is between
"NT/Windows/DOS" and "Unix". A quadrillion people are using the first, a hand
full are using the second. People don't use the Khoros graphical interface
every day. People use MS Word, Lotus, WinCIM, what have you. This stuff runs
in DOS, Windows, and NT. It does not run in Unix. You also missed (or chose
to) the point that people can't figure how to get a directory listing, or edit
a stupid config.sys without screwing everything up. If you think about, they
shouldn't have to. Now, are you telling me these people are going to switch to
Unix? Who are you kidding?
Note that I too would like to see an Unix version. I just don't think it's
reasonable to want that in lie of thousands of people who don't and will never
have a clue about Unix. It's also unrealistic, if not plain silly, to believe
Autodesk would make a product that would satisfy a few and screw the lives of
the rest of the world. Your "portable UI" approach is, however, a more likely
decision.
>> The next logical step in the evolution of 3DS is of course of the
>> workstation…not keep on intel.
Who said NT is Intel. NT is Intel, Alpha, MIPS, PPC, Sparc, what ever.
Worse of all this is that I never, in my wildest nightmare, would find myself
defending anything from Microsoft. I don't like them, I don't like their
strategies, I don't like their products. That, however, cannot blur simple
logic.
The product can also be made backward compatible – i.e. it would still run in
a pure DOS environment or a Window/NT environment. I don't think it should lock
out all those people who have no plans or reason to run a Windows/NT system.
Of the products you cite – , GUS, I don't use a single one of them. My word
Processor is Word Perfect for DOS, I uses OZCIS for DOS, and I don't need a
spread sheet. 🙂
Judy
Gus,
Yes you are right I guess the users who use 3DS are not capable of handling
unix and/or X-windows. They need to be handheld…ho they ever use 3DS is
beyond me (-:
Nonetheless I would like to have the option of using either NT or unix not be
tied to NT or DOS in the present.
There is a simple solution…have msoft change the interface to something a
little more current. Not even the new windows '95. Something on par with the
'NT Workstation' moniker.
Jeff
Gus
It is true that one should never worry about the platform that a
program runs on. Learn the application not the operating system, that will
come in time.
Jim
>>It is true that one should never worry about the platform<<
Imagine if 3DS only ran under windows 3.1. Would we all have the time to wait
for our renderings? Imagine if 3DS didn't run under OS/2. Would all the
people doing renderings in the background still be as productive? Imagine if
3DS only ran under NT. Would we all be happy with the support available for an
OS sold for servers? And what about MP support? Don't we all want to get
there. Do you really believe that Windows 95 will support MP?
Sorry, I had to get it off my chest and you happened to be standing there <g>.
Steve
Steve
All I am saying is that regardless of the platform, whatever it may be,
if you are using a particular program you will generally have little to do with
the operating system it is running under. I work and a Silicon Graphics box
right now as well as Mac and PC, I formally worked on a high end graphics
workstation called a Hell Chromocom system and generally speaking it was the
'program' that one had to use.
Jim
What I think we are all missing here is the real marketing numbers that
Autodesk has in their hands. I don't know them, but let's go back to MKT-101
and see. 100% of 3DS users are using DOS, right? <g> (yeah, right)
Now:
1)how many people are currently using NT and for what purpose?
2)From those people, separe the ones that are using it for graphics -Picture
Publisher maybe?-: who is going to buy 3DS?
3)Of those who are going to buy 3DS for NT, how many have 3DSr3 or r4 for DOS?
(say 99.9%)
Let's be logical, like you said. There is certainly no point of arguing the
port of NT based on current market numbers and projections. For that matter, it
would be make more sense to port 3DS to OS/2, since for sure, there are more
people using 3DS and OS/2 than 3DS and NT. The only way, and the only one and
correct, I have to add, that you can justify the port of 3DS to NT is the
portability Adesk and the Yosters are going to achieve, and therefore, the
reduced cost on development and the offering of various platforms to their
clients.
It is simple: if you are running a 3D program, you want the fastest machine for
it. This is speed is logically limited by your budget. By getting 3DS available
for NT running on different platforms, you are segmenting the market according
the different needs of your costumer base _and_ in the process, reducing
development costs. Is this combination of reduced cost/platfrom choice that is
giving NT the edge. Some would argue the same about Solaris or NextStep, but
the power of MS is not behind of any of these wonderful operating systems.
Results of the NT choice, each client will be able to choose a platform
according to their needs. Some will continue with Intel, other will go to
Alpha, MIPS or PowerPC according to their pockets.
However, we are playing with a lot more factors, that for sure Adesk marketing
people will be glad to discuss in 5 years or so <g> If they all got their
masters in marketing science, I am sure that the current installed base of
NT/windoze is not one of that factors. It doesn't matter that Windoze is
installed in trizillions of seats across the world. None of those computers is
going to have a $4,000 3D program installed in their HDs.
ana /krazy images
>It doesn't matter that Windoze is installed in trizillions of seats across the
world. >None of those computers is going to have a $4,000 3D program installed
in their >HDs.
None, Ana? I happen to know of two myself, one of which is mine.
(No major point or gripe, just pointing out the danger of making absolute
statements)
Maybe you haven't understood my points. Right now, people that have 3DS is
because:
1.They make a living from it.
2.They have enough money to spend the money on 3DS plus the hardware, to run
3DS as a hobby.
Well, of them, some have Windoze, some NT, some both, some OS/2, some Unix,
some has Macs, some all of them. The ones with Windoze and NT are part of the
trizillion seats. But that doesn't convert the rest of the installed based of
Windoze users in potential users of 3DS. Not at all. The same way you have
three trizillions of DOS seats, and that doesn't give you a trizillion of 3DS
copies sold. Do you get the equation? My "None of those computers is going to
have a $4,000 3D program installed in their HDs" was talking about the largest
chunk of Windoze users. And you know what are these users doing with windoze?
yes! You win your trip to bahamas! Sincerely, the closest thing to graphics
this people use is PowerPoint and maybe CorelDRAW and Pagemaker for the usual
horrible newsletter.
Now, if marketing people at Adesk are krazy and they are taking Windoze
installed base as a point for the port of 3DS to NT, I will never buy again an
Adesk product (just kidding 🙂 But I am sure that they are don't doing that. We
are not talking here about Animator Pro, which could be certainly targeted at a
business audience. This game is called 3D, and I still have to see someone
using 3DS for making 3D animated charts <g>
Besides, if you look to the market numbers searching for potential 3DS buyers
depending on installed base of computers dedicated to graphics (and supposing
that these will be interested in jump to the 3D production arena -animation,
imaging, illustration…), the only platform that you can think about has a
multicolored apple as her logo.
However, I am sure that the NT port, if any, will be done based on portability
and diversity of platform to satisfy the needs of different market segments and
cut the development costs.
I will be glad to hear if any Adesk or Yost person could correct me in this
one.
ana /krazy images
>>I will be glad to hear if any Adesk or Yost person could correct me
>>in this one.
I'm sure that none of us have the time.
Where do you find so much time to speculate?
– G
.
Where do you find so much time to speculate?
.
Where? I can find time everywhere (between 3DS renders and applying effects
over 30MB images <g>). Besides, I do this for fun. It amuses me to find paths
into the future. I really don't care about all this stuff because we are happy
with what we are doing and have now. However, there are other people who find
these speculations dramatic because their lives seem to depend on the next step
you guys are going to take.
ana /krazy images
So whatever happened to Henry Thoreau? Not on the NY Times bestseller list
(that's for sure).
I do plenty of my own kind of speculating too… (uhh… what's for dinner?)
– G
I don't think it is important if today's 3DS users are using WinNT or OS/2 or
whatever. If tomorrow Autodesk announced that 3DS r5 would run under Linux and
Linux only, then everyone would install Linux. It's not like there was much
debate when they said you needed a memory manager, or a big swap partition,
gobs of memory or a fast video card. Why should an OS that's largely
compatible with any old DOS apps, as well as running new Windows apps, as well
as bringing all sorts of nifty new products and technologies into the base OS
(multimedia support, sound cards, LAN Manager, Remote Access, TCP/IP, PPP over
RAS, WinG, scripting, etc. etc.) cause any furor? Because it takes up N megs of
hard disk space?
Because it may limit your choice of an OS. Right now there are lots of choices
in the way you want to run 3DS – PC-DOS/MS-DOS/OS-2 etc. Who wants to be
limited in the OS they use. I like freedom of choice in my OS – I don't to be
herded into something.
Judy
Absolutely right. The "If tomorrow Autodesk announced that 3DS r5 would run
under Linux and Linux only, then everyone would install Linux." resumes
perfectly my point.
ana /krazy images
To put it another way, I doubt that Autodesk would choose Pharlap over DOS if
they had a second chance… 🙂
It could have been worse – they could have selection Rational Systems' DOS
extender:DOS4GW 🙁
Judy
Good point Mike, I know of quite a few computers on which both 3DS and Windows
resides. Based on the new switch in R4, I'd say they even like each other.
Well, getting there anyway.
Dave Mennenoh