#FLAT POLISHED METAL???
16 messages in this thread
Hi all!!!
I have been working on a project and I have kind-of hit a bump in the road. I
am trying to get a small CPU base to render in a polished metal look. This is
however turning out to be quite a chore. I cant seem to get the metal texture
to look right on the CPU base (its flat), I can get awesome reflections on
curvy objects, but when it comes to flat ones the material looks completely
off-target. Please feel free to look at the 3DS file I placed in the 3D STUDIO
library under "FLAT METAL? HOW DO YOU DO?" any suggestions or hints would be
highly appreciated.
GREG
Greg:
I haven't checked out your file yet but have you tried an AUTOMATIC FLAT
MIRROR REFLECTION on your cpu base? This would be RAM intensive an is spelled
out in the manuals. If you can get away with it you might try applying a bitmap
as an added texture which would serve as the reflection. Depending on what is
animated this could save you some render time. A cubic environment map may be
worth a look as well.
– Bob Ritger
Fire up your favorite paint program and make a couple of bitmaps of blurry
swirls or something. Then ref map it. Usually makes a flat surface look a
little better.
Greg…
I'm no expert like some in the forum, however, I believe what you're looking
for isn't possible with 3DS.
One can use flat reflect maps, etc., but I assume you're trying to get a high
end "Silicon Graphics" type metallic finish like we see on TV. 3DS seems to
have problems with metals and glass (this is only my opinion).
I too would like to create highly polished, chrome finishes, etc. We all would,
but…even though 3DS is a fantastic program, but it too has it's limitations.
All pros out there are welcome to straighten me out if I'm full of it.
Hate to say you're full of it, Kevin, but guess what?<g, only a joke!>
Have Greg use a material that uses a Refmap that is MUCH higher in detail for
his flat surfaces *only*. I sometimes use one based on Granite.Cel (comes with
3DS). The "busier" the Refmap, the more "reflections" one will see in a flat
face. Just increase the resolution/size of the map in a paint program until the
effect matches the non-flat surfaces.
Simple as that.
And you should see what Refraction Mapping (Video International/Digimation)
does for glass objects!
-Alan
Thanx for the tip.
I too have noticed that 3DS does not produce proper reflections on flat
surfaces
(unless you use 'auto' reflect), but does well on curved surfaces.
If anyone elso out there can explain "WHY" and/or has any other work-arounds
please post.
Jeff Dobrow
While I wouldn't say that 3DS "does not produce proper reflections on flat
surfaces" (it does but you just can't see 'em at certain map resolutions), here
is why things are as they are, Jeff.
A spherical reflection map basically creates a spherical surface around your
mesh objects from which to reflect off of by using the surface normals of the
mesh to sample the refmap. This means that a mesh with a curved surface, having
non-parallel normals, is gonna sample quite a bit of even a low-res map,
creating what you might characterize as a "proper" reflective quality.
A flat mesh, however, with it's parallel normals is only gonna sample a small
part of the refmap. So unless your refmap is of considerable resolution and/or
has lots of detail, you're just not gonna see a whole lot of reflective detail
in the material. Got it?
Now, just simply create higher-res, higher-detail refmaps (forget refmap.gif
for this!) for flat surfaces and you should be fine.
Have fun!
-Alan
Al…you're probably right, but I'm not convinced, yet. I'll certainly mess
with your suggestions…but I still don't recall ever seeing a "good" example
of i.e. a chrome plated flat generated in 3DS. Not to say they don't exist,
just that most flat reflective type metals I've seen don't look "real" to me.
Glass either. What do I know? I haven't spent a great deal of time tring to
create these finishes either (they would seem quite "tricky" too me).
But as you know, many people have a need for reflective metals. If they are so
easy to create, you'd think these would be "default" type materials included
with at least Rel. 4. Chromes to me look like dull silvers, golds like dull
browny-yellows.
But your suggestions make sense, and I have only a few years with 3DS. If a
high quality, reflective surface is possible, GREAT! If you have any other
ideas, I'm all ears, man!
BTW, I didn't see anything re:refractive mapping in the Digimation catalog. Can
you elaborate? I don't know what refractive mapping is anyhow (if one doesn't
admit to being "uninformed", one never learns). Better ask (a few new books
from Digimation wouldn't hurt anyhow).
Thanks…Kev
>metals I've seen don't look "real" to me. Glass eithe
Using Refractive mapping can create absolutely real glass — I did a glass
"Nevada" that stunned my friend (it was animated and he's used to ray tracing
so he can never animate). It took about a minute to make, and then about five
minutes to render all the animated frames.
If you do any glass/water/diamond/transparent materials, you need this routine.
It's available from Digimation now.
Mike…
Yeah, I was lookin' at the Digimation demo. Very nice, indeed. Seems to be
geared for animated maps. Is this true? Or is it great all the time vs. a ray
trace?
This routine isn't in my Digi catalog, obviously it's gettin' a little old or
I'm blind.
Looks like a "gotta buy"!
Thanks for your input…now, what about the metals thing? Anyone out there
want to tell the rest of us moron (I mean that with the utmost respect) users
how to get nice reflective chromes, etc. off a flat surface?
Thanks again, Mike.
Kev
> Seems to be geared for animated maps. Is this true? Or is it great all >the
time vs. a ray trace?
I think that if you use any material meant to be even the slightest bit
transparent, you need this routine, in stills or animations. Just download the
demo and you'll see (it has the magnifying glass over VALLEY.TGA).
Obviously this thing doesn't do all that ray tracing can do, but when it comes
to refraction I can't imagine why anyone would want the overhead of a
ray-tracer when this is available (and for a reasonable price).
I'll tell ya what, Kev. If you want, I'll Email you my phone number and I'll
explain all this to you in person. I can also provide you with examples of
spherical reflections off flat surfaces, if you wish. I've been doing it for 5
years, now, and if 3DS somehow couldn't do this, I would've switched to another
platform long ago!
Trust me on this…<g>
-Alan
Al…sounds great. Like I said, I'm all ears.
The refract mapping is really top notch, isn't it? Gotta do some reading to
find out exactly what "refract" mapping is. The two demos in the forum sold
me, as the default glass material blows. 'Course you already know that.
Like I also said earlier, I tried your suggestion with the granite map. Of
course, this was with the "default" resolution with 3DS. I do have the Texture
Universe, but haven't looked "closely" at it the present time (workin' on other
stuff). There may be something to work with in there. Maybe not (I assume
not).
I try to create good stuff (don't we all), so any advice from someone more
experienced is always appreciated.
Thanks…Kev
My pleasure, Kevin.
Check the file I UL'ed for GregL's reflection problem. It's called Nchip.zip
and is in LIB 2.
It shows the high-detail technique along with one I call "non-automatic cubic
mapping" that I started using just after r2 was released. It can work well for
flat surfaces too, 'cause of it's different mapping style.
-Alan
Addendum…
Hey Al, was checkin' out refract map demo. Quite nice. Not in my Digimation
cat., must be old now. Gotta get some info on World Builder so…
I still need to be conviced about metals.
SeeYa…Kev
I believe the material we all long for is Stainless steel and even Softimage
which runs on Silicon Graphics can't make one.