CompuServe Thread

#Animation Cost

10 messages in this thread
#192663From: Craig 7Sep 26, 1995 2:22 PM
I need to get some idea of what is a reasonable amount to pay for an animation. I'm looking at needing about 3 to 3.5 minutes of finished product. The subject is an air crash and requires precision placement and modeling of two aircraft, live video footage of the background, accurate scaling and modeling of all aircraft lighting, cockpit view overlay and voice and text caption overlays. The output medium would probably be S Video. What can i expect to pay for a job like this. Obviously Industrial Light and Magic will charge more than your average computer animator, but I only need precision, not special effects! Are project bids the norm, or is it based on seconds of finished animation as I've read elsewhere? Any figures or comments would be appreciated, as I need to get a handle on this, in terms of at least a ball park estimate so I can purchase wisely! Thanks much.
#192709From: Sep 26, 1995 7:05 PM
Craig: >> I need to get some idea of what is a reasonable amount to >> pay for an animation. Aren't we all! <bg> It depends on the amount of time spent by the animation house more than the finished seconds of animation provided. We've done animations of 10 seconds that here more difficult than 3 minutes of another! Greg Pyros Pyros Pictures
#192734From: John N. JordanSep 26, 1995 8:24 PM
Craig, I'd get a few bids from a variety of professionals. Then determine from there. You certainly would get a bill in the thousands. 3 minutes is a long time, and accuracy will raise the cost to higher than an average "artistic" looking animation. That's all I can say. 🙂 JNJ
#192817From: Rick MillerSep 27, 1995 10:47 AM
Craig, >>I'm looking at needing about 3 to 3.5 minutes of finished product.<< This is certainly a long animation when it comes to forensics. Is this a total time of the different views or just one of the views that you need? >> … and modeling of two aircraft,<< If you could tell us what kind of aircraft is involved, then we could tell if it will need to be modeled or can we purchase one that has already been built. There are a few companies that specialize in model creation that might have what you are looking for. If they do, then your costs will drop significantly. If you need the cockpit view, then probably no one will have that, it would have to be built. There is another approach you could use for the cockpit view that would be cheaper than building a 3D model, but it would have some limitations that might not be acceptable to you. >>live video footage of the background<< Is there going to be anything from the background such as a cloud that will pass between the camera view and one of the aircraft? This would definitely complicate things. >>Are project bids the norm, or is it based on seconds of finished animation as I've read elsewhere?<< I find that things change so much after everyone involved gets a chance to see the first draft, that it would be almost impossible to bid such a project. That's why I charge by the hour. >>Any figures or comments would be appreciated, as I need to get a handle on this, in terms of at least a ball park estimate so I can purchase wisely!<< I'm not sure that my numbers will even be in the ball park without more details, but I would not be surprised to see this project go ___over___ $15,000-20,000. I maintain a list of forensic animators in the "Index & Info" library thats called "Forlst.txt". It contains such info as, areas worked in, additional qualifications and contact info, you might want to download it and take a look at it. Feel free to ask more questions…..good luck. Regards…………Rick – Technical Animations
#192896From: Craig 7Sep 27, 1995 6:20 PM
Rick, Appreciate your answers to my questions. On the cockpit view thing, would this have to be "modelled", or could I get some calibrated pictures of the cockpit from the inside and give this to an animator to work with? What would that entail, in terms of time (read:MONEY) and level of expertise for the animator to use pictures for a cockpit overlay, and what would he/she need from me in terms of pictures, measurements etc. If this would work, then I need to find out how to go about getting the materials that the animator would need, hopefully without needing to hire another person to do it for me!! Any clues? Thanks Craig Fries
#192973From: Rick MillerSep 28, 1995 12:03 PM
Craig, >>On the cockpit view thing, would this have to be "modelled", or could I get some calibrated pictures of the cockpit from the inside and give this to an animator to work with?<< If the camera is inside the cockpit and needs to pan, then you would most likely need a 3D model. With a still picture you can only look in that ONE direction. It ___may___ be possible to use a video camera moving and panning appropiately, but this would involve alot of manual work by the animator. I want to stress that using a video camera if it is panning is only a possibility. Remember that what the camera will see is NOT what the pilot would see. A human has a much wider field of view that a camera with a normal lens. >>What would that entail, in terms of time (read:MONEY)<< Really I couldn't say other than I think it could be a major cost of the animation. If you have 3 minutes then it would be twice the cost of 1.5 minutes, another words its twice as many frames that someone would have to manual create opacity maps for. This assumes that the other aircraft is a computer model, its visable and something from the cockpit is in front of the computer model aircraft…etc…etc. Lots of different possibilities that could totally change the whole picture. >>If this would work, then I need to find out how to go about getting the materials that the animator would need, hopefully without needing to hire another person to do it for me!!<< I would talk with the animator thats going to use what ever it is that you come up with. He/She will have their own views on what they need. They might even need to be there, sometimes you just can't tell someone everything without being there and seeing it for yourself. If you are the attorney, then would you want to be the one taking the pictures or video. Are you the attorney or expert, whats your connection? Regards…………..Rick – Technical Animations
#192897From: Craig 7Sep 27, 1995 6:27 PM
Rick, Craig again. The 3 to 3.5 minutes would be for just one view! The video background would not have anything moving between the camera and camera target, its just to capture the visual context of the incident. The planes are commercial airliners, and I just sent you another message asking about cockpit view methods. Other people have also said bidding on these jobs is difficult,and I can relate as I do a fair amount of programming work, and I know that I try my hardest to not have to give a bid, as you never can account for all the possible time delays in projects of this complexity and precision. Having said that, what then is the difference between $10,000 and $20,000 bids on a project like mine. What hourly rates are these generally computed on? Thanks much for your time and help Craig Fries
#192974From: Rick MillerSep 28, 1995 12:03 PM
Craig, >>The video background would not have anything moving between the camera and camera target, its just to capture the visual context of the incident.<< Then why do you need a 3 minute animation, I'm not sure what you are after now. Please explain what the animation will show and what you anticipate being a computer model. >>Having said that, what then is the difference between $10,000 and $20,000 bids on a project like mine.<< The difference is not because I would put more of something in the $20,000 animation, but because I just can't tell how long it will take to complete. But like I said above, I'm not sure what you are after now so the numbers may not apply. >>What hourly rates are these generally computed on?<< It could range from $50/hr to $200/hr. If you are asking about my rates, then we need to talk over the telephone. If you just want to ask some questions that would be fine to, let me know I will send my number private email or you can download the forensic list from the library. Regards……….Rick – Technical Animations
#192989From: Craig 7Sep 28, 1995 1:50 PM
Rick, guess I was a little unclear there. What I meant was that there wouldnt be anything moving between the camera taking the video of the background and the background itself – this is only for the video of the background. The animation will of course have the other plane being viewed from the cockpit of the subject plane, with the video of the background lighting, in the background, behind boh the subject and target planes. My connection in this case is as a visibility expert witness. The issue I will tackle is whether or not the figure/ground combination of the target aircraft against the brightly lit L.A. night skyline will give enough contrast to see the target airplane from the cockpit of the subject airplane.
#193002From: Rick MillerSep 28, 1995 3:15 PM
Craig, It sounds like you would NOT be able to use a still photo then. You need moving video to show the ground that was covered during the sequence. Could you do this with a stationary camera looking in the right direction, this would greatly simplify the animation and reduce the cost considerably? Again this may or may not be possible with a panning camera. Can you do the video from inside an examplar plane? If so then you will only need one computer model, viewable from the outside only(no cockpit view). Since you need a commercial plane, it's a good chance that one has already been built, if so then the cost would be about $300-$500 for the computer model. If what I just described in the above paragraph with a stationary comera is possible and the two planes don't go thru some wild gyrations, then the cost could be considerably less. I'm still not confident that I know for sure what is involved, thats why I hesitate to give more numbers, just some generic terms like "less"<BG>. I worked on a night time accident where a big truck was parked on the right-of-way on a highway and a car runs into the back of the truck. Part of the case was that the truck lights were mixed with the city lights on the horizon. Your case sounds some what similiar. Regards…………..Rick – Technical Animations