#FLAT POLISHED METAL???
8 messages in this thread
Al…
I took a look at the file you uploaded. Though it's a very nice finish (and at
the risk of sounding like a jerk), I don't see the polished metal part. Still
looks kinda like a satinish aluminum, which is what I think all "flat mesh"
metals in 3DS look like. Yours, however, is indeed superior to default
materials. Once again, I don't believe "chrome" or other "polished" metal is
possible.
Have you seen "Beyond the Mind's Eye" video (I think everyone in 3D probably
has)? There are several scenes with "CHROME!" robots in there. Beautiful
reflective chrome. I believe that's what most people are expecting when they
first get 3DS, cause I know I was (it was the first finish I tried to dup after
purchase). Realizing these robot scences were done with megabuck SGI machines
with software to match, one can't expect the same performance with 3DS 'cause
it's not really apples to apples.
Autodesk will get it though. If they can knock Intergraph off their pedestal,
they can duplicate chrome. 3DS is a great program for the money, even though
some complain about high price (high price? compared to what?) I hear that the
next release is to be on much the same level as SGI's quality, cause of 32bit.
Have you heard any juicy rumors about this and how much it might cost us for an
upgrade?
I appreciate you takin' the time to chat regarding this. Did solve the glass
thing though.
Talk to ya soon. Thanks, Kev.
You need to think a little more about what you are asking for, Kevin. The
statement "chrome or polished flat metal is impossible" in 3DS is absolutely
false! Let me explain:
Things that are highly reflective need to reflect _something_, and a
highly-reflective (chrome, if you will) _flat_ piece of metal is actually a
*mirror*! What, exactly did you want me to reflect in my sample file?
Given a piece of flat metal drifting in "space" (as I was to help GregL), there
was absolutely nothing specific to reflect (if there was, you'd simply use a
flat reflection or auto-cubic map; very effective but NOT what he was asking
for) so a more subtle reflective effect was called for. This is exactly what I
provided.
Besides, he specifically said he was looking to extend the effects of spherical
reflection mapping from the non-flat to the flat surfaces. This is what I
showed him how to do.
Had the object been in an environment that provided visual cues on which to
base mirror-like reflections, I'd have used other techniques provided by 3DS.
Cubic Environment maps are great for this, and are used widely for this effect
in scan-line renderers.
Moreover, 99% of the reflective effects seen on tapes like The Mind's Eye are
off non-flat surfaces. 3DS does these as good as anybody whether they're
spherical or cubic/environmentive. The flat surfaces are either one of the
techniques I've talked about here, or the only one 3DS doesn't (currently) do,
raytracing.
In a scan-line renderer, there are many ways to skin the "reflection map" cat,
and 3DS is right in there with the best. I repeat, the most important issue
when *planning* a reflective effect is to consider the *environment it is in*
(ie: what's it reflecting?) and the level of reflectiveness of the surface and
go from there.
So the bottom line is, 3DS IS capable of just about any of these effects (sans
raytracing) and more than able to keep up with it's workstation-based
counterparts with reflective effects. Since the release of r2, I have NEVER hit
a dead-end trying to get popular, specific reflective effect. Period.
My (friendly) advice to you is to try to investigate (read: learn) as much as
possible about a subject before pronouncing it impossible, especially on a
forum like this where many folks hang out who have been doing this for years. A
much better approach is GregL's, in which he merely asked for help (and got
it).
I agree that sometimes it takes a while to figure some of this out, but hey,
that's the fun, isn't it? I can gaurantee you that the renderer that one day
has a "Make Cool Reflection Material" button is NOT the one I'll be using!
Best wishes,
-Alan
Al…boy do I wish I hadn't shot my mouth off! "Impossible" was obviously the
WRONG word to use, and got more of the usual "ah..your full of s_ _ _
messages"! Not believing the "world" is wrong and I'm right, I stand corrected
with egg on my face.
After sending you the last message, it occurred to me that the faces on said
video's were, in fact, on curved surfaces as you stated, so that was a mute
point. After "pushing" the send button though, one can't "unpush" it.
I should tell you that when I first got into 3DS, this was one of the first
things I tried to generate. Being a "babe in the woods" and not really knowing
correct parameters to create such finishes, I turned to the forum. At that
time, the reponses I received were on how to do a flat mirror. I know how to do
a flat mirror. My questions were regarding the underlying material before
enabling the flat mirror and never got a suitable response. This may have been
due to lousy communication skills (3DS jargon) on my part. Perhaps this is
where I got the impression that 3DS isn't quite capable of generating such
surfaces.
Naturally, I wasn't my intention to provide false info to anyone regarding 3DS.
The good thing about about this forum is that there are more experienced people
such as yourself to straighten my little a _ _ out. I guess that's the whole
idea and thank God it exists. It's a wonderful world we live in, isn't it Al?
BTW, not knowing the parameters for your project file, I didn't mean to imply
that you didn't know what the hell you were doing. If that's the impression
you got, my sincere apologies.
I'm going to work on "something" to see if I can create some better base
materials, etc., and if I can't get the "look" I need, perhaps you can take a
look at my stuff also.
Thanks for all your help…it's appreciated a whole lot! I wonder if the guy
who ask the original question has been following our little conversation!
See Ya…Kev.
No appologies necessary, Kevin. You're just a guy who wants very badly to
emulate some cool high-end 3D effects with your affordable 3DS-based system. As
one of those guys myself, I can tell you that I think it's a very GOOD
thing!<g>
I'm sorry you didn't get the help you needed first time around here. It's true
that, when dealing with a specific 3D system, knowledge of it's particular
"jargon" and conventions can go a long way toward efficient communication.
Your plan of "going for" some base materials is *exactly* what I did to figure
a lot of this stuff out, and it's a great way of learning techniques. If you
come up against a wall, or need any help, I'll be glad to help you, so feel
free to give me a shout.
..And where *is* GregL, anyway?<g>
Have fun,
-Alan
Alan,
Hi, sorry I havent responded back to you on this. I've been real busy playing
with my new toy (SGI Indigo2 EXTREME) and lightwave/softImage. I have however
been "listening" to the two of you (Kevin and yourself) for the past week. I
knew the effect was possible in 3DS, I just wanted more input as how to acheive
it. The file I UL'd was corrupted, somehow? I'm sorry about that. I noticed it
after looking at the file you sent back(by the way your file ended up in the
wrong forum) Thanks for the help and suggestions.
GREG :^>
Hi Greg,
Nope, your file was fine, it was the MESH that was screwy!
It had horrible smoothing problems which meant that NO reflection mapping was
going to do it any good until it was fixed.
I was able to get the exact effect I was looking for, once the mesh was
properly smoothed.
I hope I helped some, and have fun with your new "toys" (you must have a real
rich santa…).
-Alan
G'day Kevin,
If you want chrome robots in 3DS a-la the Minds Eye…We've done PLENTY
of 'em. Just as shiny, and chromy and whatever you want to call it…
3DS can do chrome as good as anyone else. Freezeframe the Minds eye section (If
you have a laserdisk it is clearer) and take a look at the 'chrome' robots and
dino's.
They are mostly white with stuff reflected in them.
What is reflected is what's important, there is no such thing as a standard
'Great' chrome material, and you can take this from an ex SoftImage and Alias
user.
The materials editor in 3DS is VASTLY superior to any I have used on ANY SGI
package bar none. And Yup! Chrome looks just as good in 3DS as anything else.
Spend more time with the materials, and more importantly your reflection maps.
A piece of chrome sitting in space is… BLACK. Sitting in a room, it is a
distorted version of the room and light high-lights.
We have done fantastic glass and chrome many times with 3DS. It just takes some
work, just as it does with the SGI software.
regards,
Peter
-Pete
Pete…
I've been humbled (egg on face, feels like Ostrich eggs, too) and promise not
to shoot my mouth off so quickly. When I asked about this same subject a while
back, most responses were on how to generate a basic flat mirror, which isn't
what I wanted to know. My questions were regarding parameters for the best
types of underlying materials and never got any good responses. I believe this
is how I came to the conclusion that these finishes must only capable with
"higher-end" stuff. Obviously, you've proven me wrong, which really makes me
quite happy. I'd rather know that it's my ineptness vs. 3DS.
Well…any suggestions on what does one do when one loses credibility (not that
I had any in the first place) within the forum? I don't wanna be known as the
"idiot who doesn't know what he's talkin' about"! Being a perfectionist, I'd
like to think that for the most part, I'm pretty good with 3DS, though I
haven't had a need for a lot of reflective metal flats (mainly simple mirrors,
woods, etc.). I guess if there weren't "vet's" out there to send "your full of
s _ _ _ " messages to us less experienced, there'd be no purpose for the forum.
Thanks for your response…gonna keep your name on file so I can ask first,
shoot mouth off later.
See Ya…Kev.