CompuServe Thread

#Free Ipas' from Sisyphus

13 messages in this thread
#196784From: LEE STEELOct 24, 1995 6:01 AM
Eric and Audrey, You two are amazing, thanx for a couple of very usefull routines. I'm sure I speak for a majority of the participants here. It's a shame that more SXP's were not written. It was an area which got panned for the most part with the exception of the Yost Group, Sun Dog, and now yourselves. Lee
#196812From: Eric C. PetersonOct 24, 1995 10:56 AM
Thanks Lee, There's a reason why freeware SXPs aren't very common – except for some of the swirly colors Pointer has done – and that's that very few people know how to handle the bump mapping portion. The math involves some differential calculus. Autodesk is so busy with MAX they really didn't have the time to show us how it worked, and the only example supplied with the SDK that does bump-mapping – DENTS – uses a 3D look-up matrix with weighted interpolation and fractalization around each evaulation point… So, anyway, we got past that and figured out how it had to work in general. If you have access (or your nearby buddies at VI) to the MMDeveloper library, you'll find a file there that goes through the nasty details. Eric
#196825From: LEE STEELOct 24, 1995 1:11 PM
What MMDeveloper library are you refering to?
#196846From: Jonas Ruikis [ADESK]Oct 24, 1995 3:49 PM
Hi Lee, << MM Dev library.. >> Requires Adesk MM Dev status. jonas[adesk]
#196959From: LEE STEELOct 25, 1995 5:30 AM
OH, SURE!, You mean that I've got the IPAS Developers Toolkit and the Files Toolkit and there's still somthing I am missing?
#196987From: Jonas Ruikis [ADESK]Oct 25, 1995 10:04 AM
Sure Lee, << ..You mean that I've got the IPAS Developers Toolkit and the Files Toolkit and there's still somthing I am missing? .. >> Once part of the Adesk Registered MM Developer program, there are more resources available to make you productive and profitable. If interested, you should start a dialog with Phillip Miller , the MM Registered Developer Program Manager. jonas[adesk]
#196901From: Aleksey PopelyukhinOct 24, 1995 9:07 PM
>>The technical discussion assumes an elementary understanding of first year >>differential calculus, specifically the definition and meaning of partial derivatives >>of functions in multiple independent variables. Hi, Eric&Audrey! We were busy tackling consequently PXPs, then AXPs and now IXPs with BXPs (I mean, Fractal Flow and 2D Refraction do some ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE stuff within available functionality of all thes XPs). So, you are absolutely right, our next step would be making some Wonders with SXPs. Thanks for the info, I will read file with your discussion right away. And, Yes, I do have "elementary understanding… et cetera" <g>. It is (kind of) my profession… Alex, Video International
#196911From: Mike White SunDog Pro.Oct 24, 1995 10:08 PM
I really like your SXP's nice effect. Mike White [SDP]
#196930From: Aleksey PopelyukhinOct 25, 1995 12:01 AM
>>I really like your SXP's nice effect. Thanks, Mike! With Proud, Alex, Video International P.S. But we don't have any SXPs (yet), what are you refering to?
#197062From: Mike White SunDog Pro.Oct 25, 1995 6:48 PM
<<<,P.S. But we don't have any SXPs (yet), what are you refering to?>>> I've been really busy. I'll have them to you tonight. Mike
#196945From: Eric C. PetersonOct 25, 1995 12:27 AM
Hi Aleksey, Thanks for the thanks. We knew YOU would be able to handle the math, fer cryin' out loud. I mean, you probably had calc in grade school, right? 😉 OK, OK, so maybe middle school…. -Eric
#197028From: Aleksey PopelyukhinOct 25, 1995 1:13 PM
Hi, Eric&Audrey! Thanks for the "SXP ineerworkings" file. But let me point out to some "weak" points you've made: 1. You are not 100% correct stating that (F(x+dx,y,z)-F(x,y,z))/dx is an estimate of partial derivative only at (x+dx/2,y,z). It IS a valid estimate of dF/dx at (x,y,z) and for that matter at any point from (x,y,z) to (x+dx,y,z). 2. Second and MORE IMPORTANT: you are critisizing YG for using (F(x+dx) – F(x))/dx instead of F(x+dx/2, x-dx/2). Yes, it would be better estimate of partial derivative, but you keep forgetting what it is used for. YG restores implicit surface by Euler method: they need all partial derivatives AND some STARTING point. Then they have to move from this point only in one direction: what I mean is: x-dx/2 is UNAVAILABLE at the starting point! And one more note: there is a notion of false precision: you may evaluate partial derivative better, but what the benefit if after that you will numerically integrate using trapezoids method – you will lose all gained precision right away. >>I mean, you probably had calc in grade school, right? 😉 >>OK, OK, so maybe middle school…. I had calc in the top mathematical boarding school = appr. 8th grade (because I jumped through couple of school years, it is even 6th grade, not 8th). But I still like it. 🙂 Alex, Video International
#197045From: Eric C. PetersonOct 25, 1995 3:55 PM
Hi Again, Of course all your points are valid. I was imprecise in my use of the terms 'approximation' and 'valid at'. Thanks. We expected that you would be stronger in mathematics than those of us who are 'home grown', and it's been a LONG time since I actually had to use any of this stuff. That's what computers are for ;-). I didn't realize how strong, but I should have guessed. I have a friend in Seattle who was educated at a Russian tool&die school, and he's the best gear designer I've ever met. Criticised YG? Me? Hmmmm… something I said must not have come across precisely. I tried to make the point clearly that any approximation in Studio that works is perfectly valid and useful – which is even more important here. Thanks for the review 😉 Eric