#Memory Exp. Recommend?
47 messages in this thread
I'm thinking of expanding the memory in my 1000.
Anybody have any suggestions on the best package to buy?
Chris Kennedy
Chris,
I have an "Insider" from Michigan Software and it has performed flawlessly
since about Feb.
Regards, Larry.
I'll check it out as yours is the second good recommendation I've had now for
that unit. Do you happen to know who sells them, or have a number for Michigan
Software? I can't seem to find any ads or anything from them and they weren't
reviewed when Amigaworld tested expansion devices.
Chris
Chris,
In DL 2, there are a few text files from Michigan Software describing their
products… try a BRO/KEY:Inside* and/or a BRO/KEY:Mich* to find them. The
address is there as well as some info on their products.
Regards, Larry.
Add another recommendation, Chris… the Insider is a good machine.
Michigan Software is represented right here on the board, by two people. Do a
RS;F;RALPH LANDRY to get Ralph's PPN; you can then drop him a message right
here, obviating the need for the phone number and long distance call.
Rick
Chris,
If you can be happy with an additional 1 Meg…..I'd suggest you take a
look at Insider by Michigan Software. I've had one since they've been out and
it's an excellent product.
Don
How about a recommendation for expanding memory on the A500?
Stephen,
I don't have a reccomendation there (A500) as I have no personal
experience with any memory expansion for the A500 beyond the 1Meg that can be
bought with the machine.
Don
Try calling Spirit technology 801-484-4233. They make a 1.5 M with clock
,internal and it is a very good looking board. You can start with 0KBytes and
the price is around 279.00 (retail). Tell them I told you (extra 5%)
Mauro,
I think you got your message re-directed….I've already got Insider in
my Amiga and I'm quite happy with it so I'm not interested in the Spirit board.
Don
The Spirit board WILL eventually fry your A500 unless you supply external power
to it.
The spirit board will eventually fry you A500 even if you DO
supply extra power. 1.5 extra amps being drawn through one
ground pin and one power pin just doesn't fly. Neither will
the increased heat build up inside the A500.
We'll let CBM explain the rest..eh?
Perry
Perry,
so my A500 is going to melt one day? Anything I can do, short of getting rid
of the Spirit board?
Rodney Somerstein 73167,2165
First of all, it won't _melt_… it _may_, if you're very unlucky, develop some
problems at the power connector. And yes, there is something you can do about
it. If you were to make a solid connection beteen the 500's power cable and
your 500, the _potential_ problem would dissapear. Keeping in mind that you do
not have a problem now. You could also create a "daughter" cable that has
several extra connectors, using parts from (ugh) radio shack or Jameco. I'd
reccomend JameCo, and also the use of gold connector parts. That would solve
your problem and leave the 500 in a convenient state — one where the power
supply could still be disconnected. I believe that the supply for the 500 (the
stock one) has a remote sense at the 500's power connector. If so, this will
help keep things stable even if you did develop supply problems. If you are
using a new supply, one that has more capability or is simply a better supply
(not hard -the one CBM provides is a piece of crap) then it should also have a
regulator sense at the connector to the 500. –Ben–
Thanks for the reply, even though it was way over my head. I have purchased a
new power supply from Phoenix Electronics that will (hopefully) take care of
the problem.
Rodney Somerstein 73167,2165
I have an Inboard by Spirit Technologies with 1.5mb on the board. The board
works fine, but is not fully autoconfig, as they claim. I have to use an
ADDMEM command in order to get more than about 1.7mb of total system memory
available (I also have a 501 expansion board). Other than that, I am very
happy with the board. Spirit Technologies claims that the problem with memory
is caused by AmigaDOS, and will be fixed with DOS 1.3.
Rodney Somerstein 73167,2165
Rodney,
What problems are they blaming Amigados for?
The autoconfig (sort of) of memory addressed at $C00000 is limited to 1 meg,
and therefor a 1.5 meg internal expansion, unless it uses a regular, proper
autoconfig circuit, will come up with a total of 1.5 meg (1.7 million bytes or
so).
Regards, Larry.
The 1.5 meg autoconfig limit is exactly what they are blaming on AmigaDOS.
Spirit tech support claims that v1.3 of Amigados will fix this problem. The
tech also said that they are beta testing v1.21 which will allow booting off of
a hard disk.
Sorry about the digression. As I was saying, I set the memory to be addressed
at $C80000 and use the supplied Addmem program. It only takes a couple of
seconds and works perfectly.
Rodney Somerstein 73167,2165
Rodney,
That isn't something to be blamed on Amigados. That's the way the machine
works. It checks for memory at $C00000 and will configure up to 1 meg of memory
at that address (up to $CFFFFF). I am a little puzzled by your Addmem parameter
($C80000). If you have 1.5 megs, and address 1 meg at $C00000, then Addmem
should choke on seeing more there covering half your 1st meg.
Regards, Larry.
Oops! You are right. I am doing an ADDMEM 80000 8FFFFF. I guess I put C80000
as if I were doing a low-level format of a hard drive on an IBM. The command
for that is C800:5 from the DEBUG command.
Rodney Somerstein 73167,2165
Larry, Hi!!! Is Spirit also blaming AmigaDOS for blowing up
power supplies 🙂
PErry
Rodney, I was told by some people that the Spirit board could cause problems
with the A500's power supply, or the system unit itself, since it doesn't come
with its own power supply. Have you had any problems with underpowering or
overheating?
I didn't have any problems with the power supply or computer, but as I kept
seeing messages about the power supplies, I called and asked. Spirit said that
the problem was that the A500 power supply doesn't supply enough power. Many of
the early power supplies were evidently bad, also, and would start smoking,
then die when over-taxed. I went ahead and got a new power supply that
supplies more power from Phoenix Electronics just to be on the safe side.
Rodney Somerstein 73167,2165
Rodney,
The more I hear about Spirit, the less I like them. They "blame" the Amiga
for not configuring more than 1 meg at $C00000, when the documantation for the
Amiga clearly states that 1 meg is the space reserved for that purpose. They
now seem to be saying that the "problem" is that the 500 does not supply enough
power. I take that to mean that it does not supply enough power for their
particular purposes, and take exception to that attitude. Following that line
of reasoning to its logical conclusion, I could build an expansion unit that
included 8 megs of memory, a couple of hard drives and controllers, and a few
more floppies, and them blame CBM for not supplying enough power to run the
whole thing.
The problem, stated clearly and truthfully, is that Spirit is supplying a
partial expansion that exceeds the specs of the A500, and are not letting the
blame fall where it belongs, directly on their own design.
Regards, Larry.
I agree that Spirit should have specified in their ad, "Autoconfiguring up to
1mb". But since I am stuck with this memory board, I am making the best of it.
Now that I know what to do, it works perfectly and the ADDMEM command doesn't
really take much more time to do when cold-booting. Hopefully they are right,
and the next version of AmigaDOS will have an automatic ADDMEM if memory is
present.
Rodney Somerstein 73167,2165
Personally, Rodney, it seems to me that the use of Addmem isn't a big deal…
it's the power consumption that is a _real_ issue with the spirit board. And
that can be solved with a new supply. SOmeone should come up with a supply that
would plug right into an A500 and give it some serious current capability. The
supply they provide is truly a nightmare. –Ben–
Phoenix Electronics sells a power supply for the A500 for $99.95. I have one
plugged into my Amiga, and it works well. It also has 3 outlets in the back,
which will enable periperals to be turned on/off with the Amiga.
Rodney Somerstein 73167,2165
But Ben, a good deal of the power outputs are current limited.
AND as an EE type person – what is your professional opinion of
drawing 1.5+ amps across one trace?
Perry
Perry… welcome back! What power outputs are we talking about? On a
third-party supply? Just get a bigger supply, that's all. 1.5 amps across a
trace? Depends on the trace, of course. I've seen buss conductors meant for >50
amperes though single connectors… these were in MCI mixing boards (Audio, for
the music studio) and had to be absolutely reliable and quiet. Worked well.
Now, in the 500, obviously we will not have a 50 amp capability. But I'm sure a
couple of amperes wouldn't be out of line, perhaps even three. Depends on
several things, the trace (least important, I think) the connectors into the
500 from the power supply, and the connector from the 500 to the extra load. If
the memory board is an internal upgrade, I could see soldering a power lead
in… if that was done, then the only real concern I would have would be with
the connector into the 500. I think a supply that used a remote sense at the
connector for regulation would be a very good idea under these circumstances.
The relevant issues are power loss, connector life, heat generation,
advisability of soldering or otherwise messing with the 500's power system, and
convenience. Personally, I would _much_ prefer an internal upgrade to an
external box — you'll never smack it with a textbook and blow your Amiga's
silicon mind, for one thing. For another, The 500's foot print is nice now…
with an add-on, it won't fit many of the computer "hutches", and that kind of
stinks. In summary, I think it's doable, the underlying motivation to do it is
there, and it's going to be a popular way to go. I suspect it will prove safe
and reliable as well, as soon as someone takes the time and energy required to
do the best job possible with it. Like the group that did the insider — Which
is alive and well inside many A1000's, in just that kind of situation. –Ben–
Rodney,
It isn't that the Addmem step is so bad, it's just that I very much resent
any company placing the blame on other sources when it is clearly their own
design decisions that made the product what it is.
Regards, Larry.
Could someone post the raw numbers as to what the power requirements
of the Spirit 500 board are vs. what the 500 can safely put out. How does
this compare with the power draw vs. ability of the equivalent 1000
product? Thanks. — Art
Art,
Their are a few variables involved, such as whether or not the system
includes a 512K internal expansion or an external disk drive, but here are the
figures for the A500:
Parallel Port: 5 VDC 10 mA
Video Port: 5 VDC 100 mA
Joyports (tot) 5 VDC 100 mA
Expansion Port 5 VDC 300 mA
oops… Just noticed… Joyport total is actually 50 mA…. the above figures
indicate that the total external power available is about 460 mA. Take off a
tad for the mouse, and you are left with less than 450 mA in all. A meg of
memory will take about an amp, give or take a hundred or two mA. A board with
1.5 megs of memory will draw anywhere from 1300 to 1700 mA, depending on
design.
The A1000 has a budget for extras of nearly 2 Amps.
Regards, Larry.
The CPU Socket of the A500 is rated for 300 milleamps. The
68000 in that socket will draw nearly this amount. Engine-
ers from Spirit said their board draws 1.5 amps. Or about
a 600 percent overload.
Rodney,
Well….Spirit is hedging their bets a bit when they say the A500
doesn't supply enough power. While on the face of it…this is true, they must
also be honest and state that the A500 supplies the proper amount of power for
the A500—-AS IT WAS DESIGNED, and that they (Spirit) failed to properly
design and/or add external power for their RAM upgrade.
For them to blame the A500's power supply is tanamount to you blaming
your house wiring when you plug in (and turn on) appliances that draw 20 amps
into a circuit only designed to supply 15 amps.
The A500 was not designed to supply power to external (or add-on
internal) devices and for Spirit not to have taken that into account is their
problem, not the A500's.
Don
I agree that Spirit should take the blame. But, I feel even more strongly that
CBM should have packaged the A500 with a stronger power supply. Surely they
realize that people are going to add memory to the computer. They should have
taken this into account in their design of the A500. Anyway, to me it is worth
the extra hassle to have the extra memory now, rather than in a few weeks, and
at a reasonable cost.
Rodney Somerstein 73167,2165
Rodney,
NO…CBM provided the A500 with sufficient power to run the A500,
that's all they are supposed to do. The A500 is not an expandable machine
other than via the side expansion port…and devices that attach to that port
should be self powered. The internal expansion is not an official expansion
route so CBM can't be held responsible for what folks want to do when they hack
into the hardware (which is what the Spirit board is).
Taking another analogy…that's like saying that auto manfacturer's
should put bigger engines in cars because they know that some folks will be
pulling trailers with the car. Again…the manufacturer has done what they are
supposed to do…provided an engine of supposedly sufficient power to move the
car…not necessairly the car and a trailer (unless, of course, the car or
truck is sold with a special trailering package which some are). If you want
to make the car pull more than the engine was designed for, you either put a
bigger engine in it yourself (optional engine when bought) or accept the fact
that it might overheat the engine if you put too much strain on the car…along
with other possible problems.
The A500 is the "low end" machine…it doesn't have all the bells and
whistles that an A1000 or A2000 have….it wasn't designed to have them and
it's priced accordingly.
Don
Har, how about that… I just sent Rodney a message using the trailer hitch
analogy… then I read your message! GMTA, eh?
There are actually three choices, Don:
If you want to make [a] car pull more than the engine was designed for…
Put a bigger engine in it yourself (buy expansions with external supplies).
Accept the fact that it might overheat the engine (slap on unpowerd cards and
risk it).
Buy a car with a bigger engine in the first place (get a 2000 instead of a
500).
If you buy a 500, you live with the restrictions that implies. If you find
those restrictions too… restricting… you either find a way to work around
them or trade up to a bigger machine.
Rick
Rick,
Gee…and here I thought as I read your message that you had read my
mind! yes, I agree with the analogy (obviously) and agree with your
conclusion.
Don
"You know, I really like this new Subaru 4WD wagon. But they should have
included a bigger engine. Surely they realize that people are going to be
pulling trailers and touring the mountains?"
Rodney, what you've pointed out is one reason there are _three_ Amigas. If you
want expandability, buy a 2000. If you want a small, inexpensive, single unit
computer, buy the 500. By using care, you can make a 500 do most of what a
2000 will do… but it might be considered unfair by some to expect Commodore
to make all Amigas all machines to all people.
Rick
Chris,
I have the Comspec 2meg. I have had it since April 1986. It has performed
flawlessly.
Thanks for the recommendation. I'm afraid I can't afford to buy 2 megs right
now though.
Chris
In case it ever comes up, Chris, let me add another vote for the Comspec board,
which I've had in virtually constant use for about a year. Like Vic, I've had
no troubles at all.
Nick
I have a ASDG MiniRack-C with 2 2Meg boards since last Feb and they've worked
great! They also have great support. Once for some reason one of the boards
had a problem (probably because it got bounced around in the mail or
something).
I called ASDG an the very next day I received a New board by express mail and
they told me to send the other back and bill them for the postage. One of the
reasons I bought ASDG is because of the reputation for Quality and their 1.5
year warranty to back it up
GreggT
Thanks for the reply.
Chris