CompuServe Thread

PgS supports Pdraw!

27 messages in this thread
#4654From: Jim VentolaOct 26, 1990 5:44 PM
What exactly does your Adobe to Pro Draw converter do? (I missed the original message?) Will it go BOTH ways? How much?
#4773From: SyndesisOct 27, 1990 10:54 PM
I have code around to make it go both ways. Right now, it's a CLI-only utility. I'd guess we'd have to add an interface to it to sell it. It takes Adobe Illustrator drawings and turns them to Pro Draw clips, and vice-versa.
#4835From: Jim VentolaOct 28, 1990 2:23 PM
That would be worth about $50 to me now (I have no need immediate need for it.) If I were doing a job and needed to get some Adobe clip art into PDraw, it would suddenly be worth $100 or more. How much is PixMate these days? I assume your code is not a whole lot more complicated? I have not real use for Pixmate either, except it's fun to play with. At a lower price, folks will buy to play. At a higer price, folks will pay to get work done.
#5093From: SyndesisNov 1, 1990 10:01 PM
At a lower price, we're guaranteed to lose money. Sales of this would hardly exceed InterChange's sales. At $50 retail, somebody buys it for $30 mail order, and we get $20 for it. from a distributor. Add the cost of packaging… meanwhile, I can't wait for my article on software pricing to appear in AmigaWorld, so I don't have to retype this story…
#5210From: Jim VentolaNov 3, 1990 12:49 PM
You mean everyone who sells software for under $50 is losing money? I'll wait to read your article…
#5274From: SyndesisNov 4, 1990 2:43 PM
No, there's a couple ways to make money selling $50 software. One, have a product that's so wildly popular, that was so easy to write that you don't have any development costs to recoup. Two, sell a stable of similarly cheap and easy products, so you have a product line of 12 products instead of just one. How much do you make a year? How many $50 units would you need to sell to make that much money a year? Don't forget to cover the costs of advertising, rent, telephone, tech support, etc. And be sure to pay for the same health care, etc., you have now. A $50 product gets you $20 from a distributor. And what will you do next year?
#5281From: Don Curtis/SYSOPNov 4, 1990 5:59 PM
John, A $50 product (list price) should cost the retailer $30 (40% markup) from a distributor, who should buy it for about $27 (10% markup) from the publisher. That's $27,000 Gross profit (per 1,000 units). Subtract overhead, packaging, advertising, royalties (if any) and the publisher should end up with about $8-10,000 net profit per 1000 units sold. That presumes of course, that the publisher has more than one product for sale in order to spread the overhead. Hopefully, the product will also sell more than 1,000 units per year too. Don
#5341From: SyndesisNov 5, 1990 7:31 PM
Today's Amiga distributors buy for 40 percent of retail, or 60 percent off. (For software.) So the publisher sees $20 for a $50 product. I've known some companies that drop to 70 percent off if they think the distributor is buying a large quantity, or even shave a few points here or there to spur them to buy more. As for the price a dealer pays, it slides accordingly – if the distributor is buying cheap, they pass it on to the dealer. As you said, I think they add ten or fifteen percent to the price, to cover their own costs. Typically, you can buy InterChange (a $49.95 product) for about $30 mail order. For a product with limited appeal, like this Pro Draw <-> Adobe Illustrator converter, I'd need to sell 100 just to cover the cost of a single AmigaWorld ad. Not counting ever paying myself, which most people tend to forget. 🙂 Even if I put this product on the market tomorrow, I doubt I'd ever sell 100 of them.
#5353From: Mike SchillerNov 5, 1990 9:01 PM
John: Ok, how about a CompuServe Amiga fora special sale? In other words, If you offered it to the amigafora public (no advertising costs, no distributor discounts, no retailer markups) only, and sold it for say $75.00 (of which you'd get 100%) do you think you'd sell 50 of them? If so, then you'd have a fast $3750.00 for your pocket, so what's bad about that? BTW, to put my money where my mouth is, I'll order one right now, for $75.00 (or even $100.00 if you need that much). -Mike Schiller In sunny Fort Lauderdale
#5427From: SyndesisNov 6, 1990 7:53 PM
It's a nice idea, but I don't think it would pan out. I'd sell a half-dozen, tops. More like two, I'd bet. It's not that I haven't made money on the code. I sold it to a PC company for five figures, if that matters. In the Amiga market, it isn't worth the time it would take to clean up what I've got in order to ship it as a product.
#5589From: Ethan SolomitaNov 8, 1990 6:03 PM
You could release it into the Public Domain! 8) — Ethan
#5370From: Don Curtis/SYSOPNov 5, 1990 10:56 PM
John, Ok…easy way out…you'll lose money if you go commerical with it and advertise it even once…so post it here and ask for a "donation" and at the very least (no one sends you anything)…break even $$ wise. Don
#5424From: Steve AhlstromNov 6, 1990 6:53 PM
Don, I think you missed something there — if no one sends in the requested shareware fee, John IS out — I don't believe his programming time is free or that he consumes polluted air for nourishment. You can't get something for nothing unless the giver is willing. -sja
#5458From: Don Curtis/SYSOPNov 7, 1990 12:32 AM
Steve, Right…John is out his time and effort. But…that's better than losing his time and effort and losing money on top of that. The real answer of course is, if you can't do it for a profit, and you don't want your efforts to go un-rewarded…then don't do it at all. And unfortunately…that's something a number of so called professional level companies have done…viewed the Amiga market as unprofitable and thus have stayed out of it. Don
#5412From: Steve PietrowiczNov 6, 1990 4:53 PM
You also forgot to add in the cost of support after the product has been sold. 🙂 Steve
#5467From: Black Belt SystemsNov 7, 1990 1:04 AM
Nope. Distributors get %60, Dealers get %40, or better if they have a good relationship with the dealer. It's onfortunate (I can't say what I *really* think it is) but it's the way the AMiga market has developed. That's why Black Belt no longer uses distributors. THey take too much, and they help little or not at all. I am speaking of the Amiga distributors, of course – the ones we have had experience with are Southern, American, and MicroPace. BBS->Williams.Ben[AA7AS]
#5475From: Don Curtis/SYSOPNov 7, 1990 2:06 AM
Ben, Ok…I've never dealt with a distributor in the Amiga market. In another market, on a package that listed at $100, the distributor would pay about $45 to $50. Dealer would pay about $60. I see those margins have slipped a bit in this market. Don
#5543From: Black Belt SystemsNov 8, 1990 2:22 AM
Yeah, although…. I often wonder where the slip occurred. Was it us (the developers/vendors) or the distributors. THe cut-throat marketing the mail-order houses do certainly has had it's impact, too. Sometimes I think about a "developers distributor" setup where developers commit to providing product to only this one particular distributor. Said distributor then proceeds to buy these products, at a _reasonable_ discount (say 50%), and then sell it to the dealers at set margins, period. Not based upon quantity, either. Since the products would _only_ be available thru this distributor, the distributor would get the business, assuming only that they are good products. I'd like to see the retail price SET, too. None of this nickle and diming that drives the legitimate dealers out of business. Oh well. :^( BBS->Williams.Ben[AA7AS]
#5795From: Michael GerardNov 11, 1990 1:19 AM
Nice try, but legal only in USSR. No exactly the free enterprise system.
#5606From: Jason GoldbergNov 8, 1990 8:05 PM
I agree with you about the problems with Amiga Distributors. Besides the problems you are experiencing and you havent even mentioned the criminal activities some of these distributors have gotten away with (Ask Bill Hawes of Arexx about Southern…). They are totally unprofessional in their releationship with dealers. I am Amiga product manager for a new superchain of computer stores opperated by the owners of Inacomp computers and finnanced by Mitsubishi (ComputerCity). They are dealers of almost every major brand of personal computing equipment, including IBM, Apple, Epson, HP, Sun, CBM, NEC, AGFA, etc… They attempted to sell Amigas on equal footing with IBM and Apple. CBM West Coast district Sales thought them an important enough account to assign 2 full time product demostrators there, as well as get them to hire me. They also purchased $50,000 in Amiga flooring in the store (A giant Amiga toy slide/playground for the kids), as well as setting up 14 demos units throughout the stores various areas (Productivity, Video, DTP, Entertainment, etc…). The coorperate purchasers will deal exclusively through distributors, because it is much simpler for bookeeping, provides stock balancing, provides store demos, and more convient product support. The trouble with selling the Amiga is that the Distributors (including all the ones you mentioned) were awfull. They made racial jokes to people over the phone. They did not provide support or demos for their products instead they refered us to the vendor. They were not equipted to provide the kind of credit terms that Mitsubishi required/is intitled to. Basically they were completely unprofessional. Then we called the vendors and the vendors were just as bad! They would try to steal the accounts away from their own distributors, they would not provide dealer demos, they were not honest about their upgrade policies, etc… I have allready made a very angry post to Impulse in the Vendors forum, as they were a perfect example of a [ MORE ]
#5607From: Jason GoldbergNov 8, 1990 8:05 PM
[ continuation ] company operating in a way that will keep the Amiga from ever being sold in a big chain, like ComputerCity. Predictably, they made no response, but I have been swamped with mail from other people who had similar problems. Things really need to improve in the Amigas third party market if the Amiga is to succeed. I am sick of people blaming CBM for problems, when they went out of their way to make the Amiga succeed at ComputerCity, while the third parties and distributors feel on their face! -Jason71341,533
#5443From: Jim VentolaNov 6, 1990 10:19 PM
Well, I might have two jobs. Does it really take me full time to watch the market of an already developped product?
#5515From: SyndesisNov 7, 1990 5:52 PM
I don't know what you mean by "watch." Do you mean having a tech support line, and a warm body available to answer the questions during business hours? What do you think, when you call a company to get help and you get an answering machine? You think the company's run by someone who's got two jobs, and that never gives me the warm fuzzies. In my mind, it's a more complex weighing of potential versus work expended versus work yet to be expended. Should I spend 40 more hours working on some aspect of TSSnet, or this Adobe <-> Pro Draw converter, or at a $XX an hour consulting job down the road?
#5117From: Malcolm O'BrienNov 2, 1990 12:59 AM
Jim, In reading about Mac software in Personal Publishing I got a neat idea for using PixMate. I think you could probably use it to prepare a bitmap that you were going to trace with PD 2.0. It might be possible to maintain most of the bitmap while simplifying it to reduce trace time and avoid the PS point limit. Malcolm
#4940From: Andre PageOct 30, 1990 1:04 AM
I'm amazed that you can't sell it in the Amiga market. I'd buy it just to access clip art! It would also let me sell my Mac Plus. I could do my work in ProDraw and ship it out in Mac/IBM format. By being able to exchange files with other programs that are already established on We are cut off from the rest of the world now. Speaking of utilizing multiple formats… Have you seen the ads for Corel Draw on the IBM??? These guys take in almost everything! three or four different fonts, several line formats and a dozen bitmap formats. why don't you just add it as an optional module for INTERCHANGE??? Then if you sell some Great! if you dont it wouldn't cost you much. / / //ANDRE
#5092From: SyndesisNov 1, 1990 9:59 PM
InterChange only supports polygon-based objects at this point. That means we can't translate things like Bezier curves unless they're broken up into straight-line segments. Perhaps a future version of InterChange will support other data types that polygons… I can't wait for that day, either. I'm familiar with Corel Draw. Corel has a lot more money and programmers at its disposal than I do. 🙂
#5180From: Andre PageNov 3, 1990 12:19 AM
Too bad, I'd like to see more compatability between Amiga programs and other computers. If the "Big Names" won't support Amigas we should at least be able to give and take from them! How much money and programmers do Gold Disk and SoftLogic have? PageStream has about the best support of other formats so far. / / //ANDRE