PgS supports Pdraw!
27 messages in this thread
What exactly does your Adobe to Pro Draw converter do? (I missed the
original message?)
Will it go BOTH ways?
How much?
I have code around to make it go both ways. Right now, it's a CLI-only
utility. I'd guess we'd have to add an interface to it to sell it. It
takes Adobe Illustrator drawings and turns them to Pro Draw clips, and
vice-versa.
That would be worth about $50 to me now (I have no need immediate need for
it.) If I were doing a job and needed to get some Adobe clip art into
PDraw, it would suddenly be worth $100 or more.
How much is PixMate these days? I assume your code is not a whole lot
more complicated? I have not real use for Pixmate either, except it's fun
to play with.
At a lower price, folks will buy to play. At a higer price, folks will
pay to get work done.
At a lower price, we're guaranteed to lose money. Sales of this would
hardly exceed InterChange's sales. At $50 retail, somebody buys it for $30
mail order, and we get $20 for it. from a distributor. Add the cost of
packaging… meanwhile, I can't wait for my article on software pricing to
appear in AmigaWorld, so I don't have to retype this story…
You mean everyone who sells software for under $50 is losing money? I'll
wait to read your article…
No, there's a couple ways to make money selling $50 software. One, have a
product that's so wildly popular, that was so easy to write that you don't
have any development costs to recoup. Two, sell a stable of similarly cheap
and easy products, so you have a product line of 12 products instead of
just one. How much do you make a year? How many $50 units would you need
to sell to make that much money a year? Don't forget to cover the costs of
advertising, rent, telephone, tech support, etc. And be sure to pay for the
same health care, etc., you have now. A $50 product gets you $20 from a
distributor. And what will you do next year?
John,
A $50 product (list price) should cost the retailer $30 (40%
markup) from a distributor, who should buy it for about $27 (10% markup)
from the publisher.
That's $27,000 Gross profit (per 1,000 units). Subtract overhead,
packaging, advertising, royalties (if any) and the publisher should end up
with about $8-10,000 net profit per 1000 units sold.
That presumes of course, that the publisher has more than one
product for sale in order to spread the overhead. Hopefully, the product
will also sell more than 1,000 units per year too.
Don
Today's Amiga distributors buy for 40 percent of retail, or 60 percent off.
(For software.) So the publisher sees $20 for a $50 product. I've known
some companies that drop to 70 percent off if they think the distributor is
buying a large quantity, or even shave a few points here or there to spur
them to buy more. As for the price a dealer pays, it slides accordingly –
if the distributor is buying cheap, they pass it on to the dealer. As you
said, I think they add ten or fifteen percent to the price, to cover their
own costs. Typically, you can buy InterChange (a $49.95 product) for about
$30 mail order.
For a product with limited appeal, like this Pro Draw <-> Adobe Illustrator
converter, I'd need to sell 100 just to cover the cost of a single
AmigaWorld ad. Not counting ever paying myself, which most people tend to
forget. 🙂 Even if I put this product on the market tomorrow, I doubt I'd
ever sell 100 of them.
John:
Ok, how about a CompuServe Amiga fora special sale? In other words, If you
offered it to the amigafora public (no advertising costs, no distributor
discounts, no retailer markups) only, and sold it for say $75.00 (of which
you'd get 100%) do you think you'd sell 50 of them? If so, then you'd have
a fast $3750.00 for your pocket, so what's bad about that? BTW, to put my
money where my mouth is, I'll order one right now, for $75.00 (or even
$100.00 if you need that much).
-Mike Schiller
In sunny Fort Lauderdale
It's a nice idea, but I don't think it would pan out. I'd sell a
half-dozen, tops. More like two, I'd bet. It's not that I haven't made
money on the code. I sold it to a PC company for five figures, if that
matters. In the Amiga market, it isn't worth the time it would take to
clean up what I've got in order to ship it as a product.
You could release it into the Public Domain! 8)
— Ethan
John,
Ok…easy way out…you'll lose money if you go commerical with it
and advertise it even once…so post it here and ask for a "donation" and
at the very least (no one sends you anything)…break even $$ wise.
Don
Don,
I think you missed something there — if no one sends in the requested
shareware fee, John IS out — I don't believe his programming time is free
or that he consumes polluted air for nourishment. You can't get something
for nothing unless the giver is willing.
-sja
Steve,
Right…John is out his time and effort. But…that's better than
losing his time and effort and losing money on top of that.
The real answer of course is, if you can't do it for a profit, and
you don't want your efforts to go un-rewarded…then don't do it at all.
And unfortunately…that's something a number of so called
professional level companies have done…viewed the Amiga market as
unprofitable and thus have stayed out of it.
Don
You also forgot to add in the cost of support after the product has been
sold. 🙂
Steve
Nope. Distributors get %60, Dealers get %40, or better if they have a good
relationship with the dealer. It's onfortunate (I can't say what I *really*
think it is) but it's the way the AMiga market has developed.
That's why Black Belt no longer uses distributors. THey take too much, and
they help little or not at all.
I am speaking of the Amiga distributors, of course – the ones we have had
experience with are Southern, American, and MicroPace.
BBS->Williams.Ben[AA7AS]
Ben,
Ok…I've never dealt with a distributor in the Amiga market. In
another market, on a package that listed at $100, the distributor would pay
about $45 to $50. Dealer would pay about $60. I see those margins have
slipped a bit in this market.
Don
Yeah, although…. I often wonder where the slip occurred. Was it us (the
developers/vendors) or the distributors. THe cut-throat marketing the
mail-order houses do certainly has had it's impact, too.
Sometimes I think about a "developers distributor" setup where developers
commit to providing product to only this one particular distributor. Said
distributor then proceeds to buy these products, at a _reasonable_ discount
(say 50%), and then sell it to the dealers at set margins, period. Not
based upon quantity, either.
Since the products would _only_ be available thru this distributor, the
distributor would get the business, assuming only that they are good
products.
I'd like to see the retail price SET, too. None of this nickle and diming
that drives the legitimate dealers out of business.
Oh well. :^(
BBS->Williams.Ben[AA7AS]
Nice try, but legal only in USSR. No exactly the free enterprise system.
I agree with you about the problems with Amiga Distributors. Besides
the problems you are experiencing and you havent even mentioned the
criminal activities some of these distributors have gotten away with (Ask
Bill Hawes of Arexx about Southern…). They are totally unprofessional in
their releationship with dealers. I am Amiga product manager for a new
superchain of computer stores opperated by the owners of Inacomp computers
and finnanced by Mitsubishi (ComputerCity). They are dealers of almost
every major brand of personal computing equipment, including IBM, Apple,
Epson, HP, Sun, CBM, NEC, AGFA, etc… They attempted to sell Amigas on
equal footing with IBM and Apple. CBM West Coast district Sales thought
them an important enough account to assign 2 full time product demostrators
there, as well as get them to hire me. They also purchased $50,000 in Amiga
flooring in the store (A giant Amiga toy slide/playground for the kids), as
well as setting up 14 demos units throughout the stores various areas
(Productivity, Video, DTP, Entertainment, etc…).
The coorperate purchasers will deal exclusively through distributors,
because it is much simpler for bookeeping, provides stock balancing,
provides store demos, and more convient product support. The trouble with
selling the Amiga is that the Distributors (including all the ones you
mentioned) were awfull.
They made racial jokes to people over the phone. They did not provide
support or demos for their products instead they refered us to the vendor.
They were not equipted to provide the kind of credit terms that Mitsubishi
required/is intitled to. Basically they were completely unprofessional.
Then we called the vendors and the vendors were just as bad! They would
try to steal the accounts away from their own distributors, they would not
provide dealer demos, they were not honest about their upgrade policies,
etc… I have allready made a very angry post to Impulse in the Vendors
forum, as they were a perfect example of a
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company operating in a way that will keep the Amiga from ever being sold in
a big chain, like ComputerCity. Predictably, they made no response, but I
have been swamped with mail from other people who had similar problems.
Things really need to improve in the Amigas third party market if the Amiga
is to succeed. I am sick of people blaming CBM for problems, when they
went out of their way to make the Amiga succeed at ComputerCity, while the
third parties and distributors feel on their face!
-Jason71341,533
Well, I might have two jobs. Does it really take me full time to watch the
market of an already developped product?
I don't know what you mean by "watch." Do you mean having a tech support
line, and a warm body available to answer the questions during business
hours? What do you think, when you call a company to get help and you get
an answering machine? You think the company's run by someone who's got two
jobs, and that never gives me the warm fuzzies. In my mind, it's a more
complex weighing of potential versus work expended versus work yet to be
expended. Should I spend 40 more hours working on some aspect of TSSnet,
or this Adobe <-> Pro Draw converter, or at a $XX an hour consulting job
down the road?
Jim,
In reading about Mac software in Personal Publishing I got a neat idea for
using PixMate. I think you could probably use it to prepare a bitmap that
you were going to trace with PD 2.0. It might be possible to maintain most
of the bitmap while simplifying it to reduce trace time and avoid the PS
point limit.
Malcolm
I'm amazed that you can't sell it in the Amiga market. I'd buy it just to
access clip art! It would also let me sell my Mac Plus. I could do my work
in ProDraw and ship it out in Mac/IBM format. By being able to exchange
files with other programs that are already established on We are cut off
from the rest of the world now. Speaking of utilizing multiple formats…
Have you seen the ads for Corel Draw on the IBM??? These guys take in
almost everything! three or four different fonts, several line formats and
a dozen bitmap formats. why don't you just add it as an optional module for
INTERCHANGE??? Then if you sell some Great! if you dont it wouldn't cost
you much.
/ / //ANDRE
InterChange only supports polygon-based objects at this point. That means
we can't translate things like Bezier curves unless they're broken up into
straight-line segments. Perhaps a future version of InterChange will
support other data types that polygons… I can't wait for that day,
either. I'm familiar with Corel Draw. Corel has a lot more money and
programmers at its disposal than I do. 🙂
Too bad, I'd like to see more compatability between Amiga programs and
other computers. If the "Big Names" won't support Amigas we should at least
be able to give and take from them! How much money and programmers do Gold
Disk and SoftLogic have? PageStream has about the best support of other
formats
so far.
/ / //ANDRE