#Amiga Unix Questions
43 messages in this thread
I have a question or two about Amiga Unix. (I have a 3000 with 100 MB disk
and 6 megs of ram). I understand that X windows come with the package, but
will normal Amiga software run on the Unix? Also, how much disk space does
it all require? (for example, a full Sun Sparc distribution takes about
100 MB). Has anyone heard when the package will be released unbundled?
Thanks for any help you can give me, Larry Schilling
The unbundled version of Amiga UNIX will be announced at UNIX Expo this
week. From the reports I've heard, it will take between 40 to 80 MB,
depending on how much of the software you install. Native Amiga software
will not run under Amiga UNIX.
Steve
Thanks for the reply. It seems a shame that they can't support amigados
running as a proc under the Unix kernel so we could keep some of the old
stuff. Is there any reasonable way to find out what applications will be
available under Amiga Unix? (I've been earning my living with Unix for more
than 15 years and it would be nice to have it at home [wistfully]).
Regards, Larry Schilling
Larry;
Though I am quite sure that not only is no one NOT working on it, but I
doubt that anyone would want the challenge… AmigaDOS programs really can
not be made to run under Unix as a practical matter. It would be possible
(in theory) to run Unix as a task under AmigaDOS.
-bill/ARS KB7LX
I believe that Commodore has a list of the applications that are available
for Amiga UNIX. I've got in here somewhere (probably buried under all this
junk), and if I can dig it out, I'll post it.
Steve
Thanks to all of you for the response. Please note about AmigaDOS running
under Unix, that Apple runs all their normal apps under A-UX – or, at least
that't what they've advertised. I (and, I suspect, others) will appreciate
the Unix application list.
Thanks again, Larry Schilling
Larry,
"Please note… Apple runs all their normal…" Right…also note that
Apple does NOT have a real-time/multi-tasking system. If they did, they
wouldn't be running 'under Unix' either.
Unfortunately, without extensive realtime extensions to the UNIX kernel on
the Amiga, there's no hope that AmigaDOS applications will run. Even that
isn't the only step. It's only the first, and it's a BIG step.
I'll try to dig up the list soon.
Steve
Hmmm…maybe I shouldn't have worded it that way. By "BIG step" I mean
that it would be a lot of work, not that it would go a far way to getting
AmigaDos applications running.
Steve
Unfortunately, without extensive realtime extensions to the UNIX kernel on
the Amiga, there's no hope that AmigaDOS applications will run. Even that
isn't the only step. It's only the first, and it's a BIG step.
I'll try to dig up the list soon.
Steve
Larry,
You have a choice of running only UNIX or only AmigaDOS. You can't
run both at once…so no, normal Amiga software won't run while you're
running UNIX. And vice-versa…UNIX software won't run while you're running
AmigaDOS.
Not sure on the disk space. I suspect with your 100 meg HD, you'll
end up with 30 or more Meg free.
It's supposed to be announced very soon now as a stand-alone
package, no idea on pricing.
Don
Don,
I have an A3000UXB here for eval and it uses about 80meg for all the
system stuff. That includes all the X Window files and the manual pages.
There were two partitions set up for Amigados. A 2 meg for ADos and a 5
meg for "Work". Pretty generous eh? I just discovered that although the
machine is labeled as having 8 meg of ram and a 200 meg drive it really has
only 4 meg (plus 1 meg chip) ram and a Quantum 105 drive. I am glad I
didn't buy this one! This causes X Window to swap to disk (I think) which
makes Open Look GUI just about useless. I ssume more ram would fix this
snag.
I plan to run a cobol( Accu-cobol sp.) benchmark test on it tomorrow
when I get the runtime module. We'll see how it stacks up to the
competition.
….Mark 74335,1677
You might want to re-run your benchmark on the newest release when you get
it. The performance of the machine has been greatly improved.
Steve
Steve,
Do you know if performance in general is much better or is it just X
Window performance? I will see if I can get ahold of the new version. I
assume you have seen it.
….Mark 74335,1677
The comments I made are based on what beta testers and the developers say.
The entire system is faster. According to one beta tester, X Window
performance is "so fast it glows".
Steve
It is good to know of the speedup. I wish I had the new version for the
testing I am doing. I wouldn't be using X Window right away so general
performance is more important to me.
….Mark 74335,1677
Mark,
I am considering my options for a home computer that runs a multi-tasking
Operating System. Choices range from a 680×0-based system running OS-9 (a
real-time Unix-like kernel) to a NeXt slab ($6000 with compilers
installed!). The NeXt thing is out of the question, but $4000 for an Amiga
might not be. Is the Unix System V compatible? Does it come with C++ (or at
least C)? If not System V, it is BSD 4.3 or greater?
Do you *LIKE* it?
Mark Wuest
Mark,
The 3000UX runs full UNIX System V Release 4. Straight from UNIX
International
Yes, it comes with C…two version. GNUC and AT&T C.
Don
I visited my local Amiga rep yesterday. I was sorely disappointed as he
knows nothing about this product and his starting price (5mb ram, ~100mb
hd) was $6200 without a monitor! Boy, the NeXT computer started looking
*real* good. ($6000 gets 8mb ram, 68040, 200mb hd, monochrome monitor,
Objective C – a superset of C++ – and tons of other goodies.) Is he way off
on the price (I got the impression I should be able to pick up something
nice for around $4000 – bot don't remember where I heard that)?
Does anyone know if C++ is available? Where? Commodore gave me this guy's
name and he wasn't much help.
FWIW – I am looking for a home workstationon which I can write programs in
C++ like I do at work. I presently use an old Radio Shack Color Computer
with 70mb hd running OS-9 and would consider a non-multitasking environment
(MS-DOS, AmigaDOS, Windows X.X, Macitosh, etc) a step backwards. I am
looking to purchase in the next 2 or 3 months if I can find something.
Oh – he *did* have some literature faxed from Commodore showing that it
had SVR4 as you say.
Thanks mucho!
Mark
Mark,
My dealer quoted me thusly:
A3000UXB 5meg ram/25mHz68030/100mb HD/Ethernet card $3600
A3000UXD 8meg ram/25mHz68030/200mb HD/Ethernet card $4600
A3000UXD sames as G plus A2410 graphics card $5000
Not really so expensive for what you get. You will need a monitor
(VGA).
Hey, now wait a minute. Don't lump the Amiga with any shabby
non-multitasking operating system type machine. Amigados has ALWAYS been
multitasking and I mean really usable high-performance multitasking. As
you know (OS-9 user), multitasking is a real boon to a developer. You can
run your various tools concurrently on the same machine. I am fairly
certain that C++ is available for the Amiga. Is it from Comeau? I'm not
sure on that one.
….Mark 74335,1677
Mark,
You already told me more than I've gotten out of either the local dealer
or the 215-431-9100 headquarters number or the 800-448-9987 number. Does
anyone at Cmmodore know anything about this computer? <g>
Where are you located? Your dealer is about $2800 lower than mine!
I bought a Computer Shopper yesterday, hoping to find an ad or two for
someone who could tell me about this (and maybe even sell me one), but it
seems to be pages and pages (and pages) of PC-compatible stuff. Not one
mention of an Amiga!
The A3000UXG(?) sounds ok for home. Maybe they would trade more memory for
that Ethernet card (haven't wired my home for Ethernet, yet <g>). If I
could just *find* one!
Mark
More info? That's why were all here isn't it? The information I gave
you took quite a while to gather. I had similar problems getting
information from Commodore. I called reps, regional sales people, dealers,
the dealer inside sales person at C=. I even wrote a letter to Mehdi Ali
and James Dionne. I don't give up easily. The UX machines were even on
the Power Up program at substantial discounts. The power UP price for the
"B" was $3999 and the "D" was $5499.
My dealer is definitely not greedy and the prices were quoted to me and
not in general. I am in Ohio. Find a dealer who deals. The 3000UXB could
be upgraded to the next level for less than the $1000 difference in street
price. I consider it the best deal. Four meg of ram and a Quantum 105lps
drive can be had for much less than a grand. I just found $190 for ram and
$419 for the drive. The "Shopper" is great for PC stuff but has next to
Zero Amiga stuff. It is still good for general stuff like ram, HDs,
modems, printers, monitors etc. Amiga CPUs are not openlu mail-ordered but
you can call M.O. outfits that are C+ dealers and ask for system prices.
Good luck.
….Mark 74335,1677
I found a dealer in NYC Saturday that was very helpful. Amigination. Got to
see and check out the 30000UXD. I was favorably impressed. As soon as we
see what the prices are going to do (and we find me a C++ compiler), I'll
probably jump in.
Mark
Comeau Computing makes a C++ compiler for the Amiga 3000UX series.
Comeau Computing has a C++ compiler form Amiga SVR4 Unix. I don't know
their number but they're located in Brooklyn and are listed.
Mark,
Ah good! You found a decent dealer. There ARE some out there.
….Mark 74335,1677
Mark,
Ah…I just Love Commodore Marketing…they're such idiots.
Try to find another dealer, the UX is a nice machine. If nothing
else, contact my dealer….he's had a UX (and been using it) for quite a
while now.
My dealer is John Sobernheim at The Computer Room, (303) 799-9733.
At least he'll give you some valid information.
Don
Don,
I found "Amigination" in NYC Saturday. They use a UXD as a file server for
all the other Amigas in their store. I spent about an hour with the sysadm
for the Unix box and piddled around with it some. His prices were much more
reasonable than I had gotten in NJ and he was more knowledgable.
He said prices were going to drop a little in the next month so I will
wait a little. All told, it looked pretty good. X-Windows performance was
the only real downer (pretty poor). I'm just about sold. 🙂
Mark
Mark,
Good. You might check to see which issue of the UNIX they were
running. I understand the 2.01 (or some such) issue is significantly
improved over the original issue. In particular, it's my understanding the
Xwindows are much faster.
Don
The 2.01 version of UNIX has a much improved X Window version. I assume
Amigination was running the older version.
….Mark 74335,1677
Yup, he said what you said (sheesh! When you moved the mouse the cursor
*disappeared*!), but had not seen 2.01 for himself. I'll keep in touch wiht
him re: prices and availability of 2.01.
Thanks for your help!
Mark
You shouldn't have to wait long for Amiga UNIX 2.01. I don't know what
the upgrade would cost (if anything) if you bought a machine with the older
version installed.
The Amiga UNIX implementation is very complete. I am not a programmer
so I haven't looked at the C that is included but there is more than ne
compiler and various editors. It is a true SVR4 UNIX. I have only fooled
with the 1.0 version. The 2.01 version is out and is reportedly much faster
as well as including a number of enhancements. I am told that the Open
Look GUI is now color. It seemed pretty quick with the 1.0 version. Many
things are included that are options with other UNIX implementations. Do
you want it for program development for UNIX machines in general? If so,
it sounds like a good choice for the price. The NEXT has a good rep for
the development tools it has but you DO pay for it.
….Mark 74335,1677
I may need to call Commodore again and explain that the guy just didn't
know the answers. I want Unix because it is what I use at work now and
would like to have a similar environment. I have a few programs I have
written that I would like to port.
If it really costs $6200 to get an Amiga with Unix, then the NeXT looks
like a better deal…
Mark
have you looked at suns…an SLC list for $4995.00 ( diskless ) and a
external HD can probably set you back $1200.00 so street price for a SLC
will be around $4500 including hardisk.
-Ed
I haven't looked at Suns at all because the prices seemed so far out of my
range. It won't hurt to call a dealer, though. Thanks for the tip!
Mark
A 386 vga system with UHC's SVR4 can be setup for under $3000. A minimum
hardware configuration costs about $2000. The SVR4 software costs around
$1000. This includes X11R4, OpenLook, Motif, XtookKit, News, RFS, NFS.
They've just released their version 3.6. The X windows really had a lot of
performance tuning work done, as a result the performance seems to run
circles around our SUN sparc1 (forget about even comparing it with the
amiga, X on the Amiga is so slow it's almost unusable).
Yes, under the old version of Amiga UNIX, X was pretty bad. Under the
current version, it's quite good.
I am currently using 2.03 with X11R4. While the performance is much better
than previous version, it is still far from satisfactory. Espesially when
comparing it to products available on 386/486 platforms.
There is a good reason for this ovcourse. C= is unable to commit the
resources to optimise the very low level video drivers as well as their
386/486 platform counterparts.
I just don't want an Intel-based system. (All those byte-swapping,
fartol(), etc crazies). My younger brother has some '386 thing he uses in
DOS. Fast as blazes but… I also know 680X0 assembler better than I care
to admit from work…
Thanks for the suggestion, though!!!
Do you have any ideas on contacting Comeau Computing? I tried directory
assistance in Brooklyn and got a blank.
Mark
Comeau Cumputing's number is 718-945-0009
Larry,
They won't run concurrently but can both be on the same hard drive. It
takes a while to shutdown Unix but otherwise switching from Unix to
Amigados requires nothing more than powering down and back up. Just hold
down both mouse buttons to choose Amigados. The A3000UX I have for
evaluation has about 80 meg of files on it. Prices will become known this
week. Look for 1-2 user license and an unlimited user license.
….Mark 74335,1677