#ProWrite 3.2 color bug?
27 messages in this thread
I have noticed the following bizarre behavior with the new "3-D" user
interface look in ProWrite 3.2.1. If I select "Screen Colors…" from the
"Edit" menu, and change the color of "white" to make it darker (say
R=13,G=13,B=13), I then find that once this change is accepted, the 3-D
user interface look goes away and I have 2-D requesters, etc. If I change
"white" to a dark gray (say R=3,G=3,B=3), then the default color of the
printed page becomes yellow!
Is this a bug, or is this a consequence of the new color handling
capabilities in ProWrite 3.2? Either way, it's certainly
counterintuitive!!!
Steven,
The behavior you have discovered is because of ProWrite's new color
handling mechanism. Because ProWrite is designed to work on _any_ screen,
no matter what the color palette (including public screens where the
palette is not set up by ProWrite), it automatically checks the screen
palette every second or so and adapts its display to the current color set.
The 3-D effect on the requesters requires a set of four colors: a "white"
color (chosen to be the brightest color available), a "black" color (chosen
to be the darkest color available), and light and dark "gray" colors
(chosen to be the closest it can find to the appropriate brightnesses).
When the "white" and "light gray" colors are the same color, which can
happen when there is no bright white, it reverts back to a 2-D user
interface. Otherwise, some of the requester items would be partially
invisible. This also means that, unlike other programs, if you radically
alter the color palette, you still automatically get a nice 3-D look
(assuming you have enough colors).
The page color change is due to the fact that ProWrite always uses the
brightest color available for the page background. If you change the white
color to be something darker than the yellow color, then it will start
using yellow for the paper. Again, this behavior is because ProWrite is
designed to work on any screen with any color palette, so it doesn't have a
fixed color register number that it uses for display. If you want a gray
for the paper, you will need to darken _all_ the colors.
[continued in the reply]
[continued]
Incidentally, this color adaptation applies to more than just the paper and
requester colors. It also applies to the colors used for text and
pictures, so you will always get the closest possible correspondence
between a picture's real colors and the colors used to display it. And if
you run ProWrite on a screen with more colors, you will get more accurate
picture displays (at the expense of slower program operation). This should
even work if Commodore ever decides to upgrade the Amiga hardware to
support more than 32 colors; ProWrite can theoretically handle screens with
up to 256 colors (and everything internally is with 4,096 colors).
James Bayless
New Horizons Software, Inc.
James: OK, I'll back off of my earlier note. But geez, has ANYONE tried to
use 3.2 in an interlace mode on a non-3000 (or rather a non-ECS machine)? I
can tell from your response that you guys are trying to anticipate where
things are going. Good for you. I love your company, and I think your
products reflect your vision. However, I now am reluctant to use 3.2 jsut
(er, typo, that's "just") because I can't stand the damn flicker. And like
Steve (the other one) said, it certainly isn't intuitive (although you did
a very good job of explaining it). Any ideas of what us loyal N.H. fans can
do until we all live in a perfect (flicker-free) world? BTW, has anyone at
N.H. tried to use 3.2 on an interlaced, non-ECS, flickering display?
Steve Anderson p.s. I really am a
fan. But even us fans can complain now and then.
Stephen,
As with previous versions of ProWrite, there are still two ways of using
ProWrite on regular (i.e. non-deinterlaced) displays:
1. Run ProWrite in a high-res screen, but dim the colors (all of the
colors) until the flickering is minimized. The only difference from
previous versions is that now you have to dim _all_ of the colors, not just
the white color.
2. Run ProWrite in a medium-res screen.
ProWrite will default to opening a screen of the same resolution as the
Workbench screen, so if your Workbench is in high-res you will need to
explicitly tell it to use a medium-res screen.
James Bayless
New Horizons Software, Inc.
I use a dark gray background (to minimize flicker) with bright orange
lettering. Do I understand you to say this is not possible any more that
ProWrite will automatically use the lightest color for the background?
Robert,
Yes, since ProWrite is now designed to be color-palette independent (it
will do the best it can no matter what the screen palette is), it will
automatically use whatever the lightest available color is for the "white"
page background. Similarly, it will use the color that is closest to red
when drawing the red portions of pictures or red text, and so on.
James Bayless
New Horizons Software, Inc.
I think you may have to rethink that strategy…….
Yes, that is really a bummer! We are used to setting our screens the way
that we want – otherwise we would buy a MacIntosh, don't you know!
JL
I have not yet received my "upgrade" as yet but it sounds like they did not
test this with "regular" users. If I cannot minimize the flicker to
acceptible levels then I am going to demand my upgrade money back and begin
looking elsewhere for a usable product.
James –
> …it will automatically use whatever the lightest available color is
for
> the "white" page background.
May I suggest a feature for future addition/upgrade?
Offer as an option (command-line or "ToolType"):
PAGECOLOR = LIGHT [OR DARK]
Then the people who prefer light type on a dark page can be happy, too.
. . . . . JimDoc
James: OK, I thought I tried dimming all my colors, but I'll try again. As
I recall it seemed that even if I dimmed all my colors as soon as I dimmed
white down to below 14 on R, G, and B the 3-D went away. Anyway, like I
said I'll try again.
I do have a different question though. After I upgraded to A-DOS 2.04 I
started getting a requester in ProWrite for "ProDir:" (you know, "please
insert volumn ProgDir: in any drive"). I don't assign ProgDir anywhere, and
I don't think I did before, under 1.3. When I FileZap the ProWrite program,
sure enough there is a string "ProgDir:", and when I changed it to
ProWrite: and ran again, it now requested the device "ProWrite:". I
assigned ProWrite: to the directory I kept the program in, and all works
fine. Is this an accident? It seems a little silly for one program on my
hard disk to need a non-descript directory named "ProgDir:".
Anyway, other than these two things, ProWrite 3.2 is really great. I am
finally (and I have waited a LONG time) happy with the output I get on my
DeskJet-500, using your postscript output and the PD POST program.
Steve Anderson
Stephen,
The reference to "ProgDir:" in ProWrite is utilizing a new feature in
AmigaDOS 2.0. Under that new version of the system, any reference to
"ProgDir:" is automatically referenced to the location the program was
loaded from. This is a simpler and more reliable mechanism than what must
be done under AmigaDOS 1.3, so we use it if we can. You should _not_
change the references in the program from "ProgDir:" to "ProWrite:" as this
will defeat this feature (unless you also assign "ProWrite:" to the home
directory of the program.
The "ProgDir:" feature of the OS was not working properly in versions of
the system prior to 2.04, so we only use it if you are using a 2.04 (or
later) system. I have no idea why it is not working for you, unless you
haven't done a complete upgrade to 2.04 (i.e. ROMs _and_ Workbench files).
At what point are you getting requests for the "ProgDir:"?
James Bayless
New Horizons Software, Inc.
James:
Just thought I'd jump in here for a second, while I've got you on the line.
First, how DO you find out which directory a program originated from at
load time under 1.3 (a silly question perhaps, and one that belongs in
AmigaTech maybe, but since you mentioned it…:) Second, I sent in a disk
for an upgrade to Quarterback. I was wondering if you recieved it and how
soon I could expect the upgrade. And third, a few weeks ago, I sent you
copies of MIfont and MIoutline. I was wondering if you've had a chance to
see how they fair when using the fonts in ProWrite (Mark said there were
some problems, though I've tested it here with ProWrite and am very pleased
with the results.)
Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming…:)
Gary,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, I've been out of town.
Under 1.3 we determine the directory containing the program by getting the
program name (with path) from the CLI string and combine that with the
current directory location. Obviously if you are running under Workbench
and not the CLI then you just look at the current directory. Note that
this will _not_ work if you have added ProWrite's location to your CLI
"path", whereas the "ProgDir:" mechanism in 2.0 is provided to work around
that problem as well.
I'll have someone look into the other two things you mentioned.
James Bayless
New Horizons Software, Inc.
James: Geez… I *THINK* I did a complete upgrade to 2.04… A guess I'll
have to give it another look. I at first suspected my semi-custom
configuration. I launch ProWrite from an AREXX menu strip (I'll eventually
move it over to the workbench tools directory, but I'm still learning the
ropes..). However, I also get the requester for me to "Insert ProgDir:"
when I just double-clicked on the ProWrite icon. I get it three times:
twice just as the program is starting (spaced out just enough that it seams
to be doing something in between) and again after it opens the Untitled
window. After hitting cancel all three times, none of my defaults (tabs,
colors, etc.) or custom AREXX menu labels are there. After I patched the
thing for ProWrite: (which it sound like I should undo) everything has
worked fine. I'll look into it some more – It's probably just something I
screwed up somehow. Seems like maybe the AmigaDOS 2.0 manuals should at
least have an index entry for "ProgDir" in case of things like this. Thanks
for the quick reply James.
Steve
Steve,
Many of the program launchers out there, like Amidock, do not give ProgDir:
to programs that may make use of it. If you launch ProWrite from it's
icon, you should have no problems.
Mark
New Horizons Software, Inc.
Mark: Aha! You may have just hit the nail on the head! Me thinks you are
right. Since I mainly use ProWrite from a launcher, it isn't getting the
ProgDir: passed or assigned or whatever. I really did think that it also
didn't work even when I used the ProWrite icon in its drawer, but I may be
wrong. Thanks, Mark!
Steve
Steve,
I use a flickering A500 at home all the time. I do not really even notice
the flicker. Anyone who needs to get work done can ignore the flicker.
However, there are a couple of possibilities on how to reduce the flicker:
1) Take all the colors in the ProWrite palette to half brightness.
2) Use your Brightness knob on your monitor (I use this mostly).
3) Wear sunglasses. This method seems to be the best as far as my
experiments have shown.
Mark
New Horizons Software, Inc.
Mark: Your suggestions about flickering are very interesting and somewhat
humerous. Let me throw something back at you on each one:
1) Take all the colors to half brightness – I've tried that, and I lose
the new 3-D effect on my Ruler. I know I'm not supposed to according
to your last message to me, but I do. At some point the 3-D won't
matter to me anymore, but for now it's new and kinda cool, so I want
to keep it.
2) Turn down the brightness knob – I sit in front of a Sun workstation
and a Macintosh all day. It's hard enough to come home to a flicker-
ing screen… I think I'd go completely blind if I have to turn the
thing down enough to make it stop flickering. (Although you are
right: If I turn off the monitor entirely it really stops flickering).
3) Wear sunglasses – I have to assume you are not serious. My wife
already wonders if I am a little crazy. If you come home at night and
sit in front of your computer with your sunglasses on, you must not
be married, and you must have a lower threshold of embarassment than
I do.
I think the right answer in the long run is a multisync monitor and one of
the various non-flicker boards, but since that costs more than just about
anything else I want to buy, I'll probably wait. In the meantime I'll just
go to bed every night with my head jiggling at about a 60 Hz rate.
Steve
Steve,
You are right about me not being married, and as far as embarassment, if it
works, then I don't mind nor care what others think. The sunglasses do
work, and happens to be a little better than those Flicker Master screens
you can get to put in front of your screen. (Of course this is an
opinion.) The advantage of the Flicker Master screens is that it doesn't
look as silly.
But, we must agree that the real solution is to get a Flicker Fixer, an
A2320 Display Enhancer, or a Flicker Free Video board.
As for losing the 3-D effect when lowering the intensity, I can't seem to
figure out why that happens. I'll have to do some investigating.
Mark
New Horizons Software, Inc.
Mark:
I've looked again at lowering the intensity of all the colors, but it
doesn't seem to matter. As soon as the brightness of white goes below 14
(no matter what you've done to the other colors) the 3D goes away. Like I
said, it's frustrating (and without the public screen explanation I got
here, it seems like a bug…) but once I get used to having the 3D I'll
probably not care if I lose it for a little less flicker. I have to think
though that the folks who designed this must never have to sit in front of
a flickering interlace screen. Does everyone at New Horizons have a Flicker
Fixer, or what?
On a different subject: I downloaded a 3.2 -> 3.2.1 patch from another
network (or can I say BIX here?), but there isn't any explanation of what
it does. I'm going to look around here, but if it hasn't been addressed
already, what is the diff between 3.2 and 3.2.1?
Thanks,
Steve
P.S. As for the sunglasses, I still think I'm going to have to wait for a
better solution…. Thanks anyway.
Steve,
If you want 3.2.1 and you have 3.2, you can send your Program disk back and
we will give you 3.2.1. This is a free upgrade, but you must send the disk
back. I am working on a patch to put here on Compuserve. At this time,
ignore any other patches.
Mark
New Horizons Software, Inc.
Hi,
Sorry to jump in but I find I must agree with sentiments presented in
previous postings. I do not like your choice in determining color schemes.
I've tried various options after decreasing the main screens white color to
a shade of gray and losing the '3D' effect, and been unable to obtain a
satisfactory (to me) harmony of screen colors. The '3D' effect disappears
no matter how I dim the other colors after reducing white. While not
rendering your fine product ineffective, it does cause an annoyance factor
that wasn't present before. I will _happily_ send in my disk for an upgrade
that rectifies this decision on your part. I will note that, I find your
disk exchange policy extremely fair and that those who find it an
'obsolete' method of upgrading, deserve MS-DOS and all that goes with it.
Thanks,
Jeffrey Seidel
Mark: Wait a minute… Re the upgrade patch from 3.2 to 3.2.1: You say that
you are working on a patch to put on CIS, and to ignore any other patches.
I already patched my copy of ProWrite using something I downloaded from
BIX. Everything works OK.. I think… Is this not a legit patch? Should I
get it off my disk now? Also, my original question was what does 3.2.1 do
for me over 3.2. I still am interested. I haven't noticed any difference,
but then I thought everything was working great before.
BTW, I mentioned before my problem with ProWrite wanting me to insert the
'ProgDir:' disk. I think I've figured out that it is (mainly) when I launch
the program from WShell directly or from an AREXX script via WShell that I
have the problem. Since these are the only ways I start ProWrite it seemed
to always happen. Perhaps it is something that the new WShell will correct.
Steve Anderson
Steve,
The patch that you probably used was one that I created, but it did not
contain the patch to the PostScript Prep file. This would be okay as long
as you do not have a need to print in PostScript. I'll be getting that
patch up this week. This one will contain the patch from 3.2 to 3.2.2 and
3.2.1 to 3.2.2 on the pogram itself, and also a patch for the PostScript
prep. Also, a script to make the installation easier should be included
that is executed from an icon.
Mark
New Horizons Software, Inc.
Steven: Ditto! I've got the same problem. Forget the counter-intuitive
label; for those of us (poor slobs) who are trying to put up with the
flicker on our stock 2000's, reducing the white to something darker is our
only hope. If that results in all the 3-D stuff going away, then some of
the New Horizons folks should have to sit in front of an interlaced screen
for 8 hours. Don't get me wrong, I think 3.2 is really great, but the
screen colors item needs some serious re-work. As you pointed out, aside
from white not working right everything else re-maps if you change anything
anyway. What gives? I've decided to keep my old 3.1 around for a while
'cause at least on it I can put up with the interlace since I can adjust
the white to something darker. PLEASE help, N.H.!
Stephen Anderson