CompuServe Thread

#Help!!! Any Geologist

10 messages in this thread
#164389From: STEVEJan 24, 1995 7:16 PM
I am constructing a pipeline project in central Virginia in solid limestone so far with excellent results. I am rendering the rock with 4 pounds of dynamite per cubic yard for the last 3 days we haven't advanced at all the rock has changed and no amount of explosives seems to break it.I broke a piece off today and held it up to the sun I sparkles with small specks of quartz It has several hundred per square inch!What on earth have I run into and is it wide spread or will I run out of it!!! Please Help anyone!!!! Thanks from a frustrated Contractor:Steve
#164427From: Doug MitchellJan 24, 1995 11:09 PM
Hi, Steve– Welcome to the forum/section! Being an amateur in these matters, I have no clue. While some of the geologists here may have suggestions, there is no telling how fast the person with an answer may turn up. You might increase your chances of a fast response by asking also in the newsgroup sci.geo.geology; SCIGEO.TXT in this forum's library tells how to access it from CompuServe. Info on another possible source follows. It may help someone make an identification if you give more details. Are you sure it is quartz you see in the rock, rather than mica flakes or some such? Does the rock seem entirely made of these crystals? What is the general color of the rock? Does it have black spots or layers? What town or other landmark are you near? The service announced below can be reached by sending CIS mail to: INTERNET:ask-a-geologist@octopus.wr.usgs.gov Your Internet address (to tell them) is: 75754.2754@compuserve.com Good luck! –Doug "Beginning Monday, October 3, 1994, the USGS will offer a new, experimental Internet service – Ask-A-Geologist. General questions on earth sciences may be sent by electronic mail to the Internet address: ask-a-geologist@octopus.wr.usgs.gov "All electronic mail to Ask-A-Geologist will be routed to the geologist of the day. The geologist will reply to your question within a day or two, or provide referrals to better sources of information. Please include an Internet-accessible return address in the body of your message. "Ask-A-Geologist is an experimental service of the USGS Branch of Pacific Marine Geology, with participation from several other branches. The United States Geological Survey is the principal source of scientific and technical expertise in the earth sciences within the Federal Government. "Naturally, we cannot answer some classes of questions. We cannot answer questions about specific sites — for example, Is my home in a landslide area? We cannot answer questions with a specific economic impact — for example, How much gold is left in the Homestake mine? We cannot endorse commercial products or companies. And, we cannot answer questions based on information not yet released to the public. We might be able to provide referrals to other sources of relevant information. "All questions and answers will be part of the public record. After collecting questions and answers for a few months, we will make a Frequently Asked Questions list (with answers) available via anonymous FTP and World-Wide-Web. "We encourage grade school and high school students with electronic mail access to send in questions — but we can't write your reports for you! In limited testing, we've had an enthusiastic response from many grade school students. "If you have any questions about this service, but not about geology, please contact the system administrator – Rex Sanders <rex@octopus.wr.usgs.gov>.
#164551From: STEVEJan 25, 1995 6:15 PM
Doug: Thanks for the advice!However the answer that I received from Elizabeth was exactly what I needed! I did not know what It was but, I was suspicious that we were looking at a limey sandstone. Thanks again for the Help. Steve
#164453From: Elizabeth R. BondJan 25, 1995 2:00 AM
Steve: I am not a 'field' geologist (i.e. outdoor-type), but if in fact you are seeing quartz grains of sand-size <<several hundred per square inch!>>, I will hazard to say it is probably sandstone. An igneous rock in contact with limestone would (probably) not have suddenly appeared but would have had some boundary-change marked by yet-another kind of rock. Limestone itself can be granular — in the extreme this is called marble — but the change in character you describe supports the above. If you think it's important, you can drop a little dilute muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid — 5% in water is strong enough) on it to exclude this possibility. Limestone will fizz. If only the matrix and not the grains themselves fizz, you *can* have sandstone with limey cement. I'm sure it is possible to split sandstone with explosives, probably just a different technique (deeper/narrower/shallower/bigger plug holes, something). But I have no experience in that; maybe you can find someone who does (once you confirm the identity of the rock). >> is it wide spread or will I run out of it!!! No way I (or anyone, with no more data) can tell the answer to that. I would ask around — any old-timers who might have dug wells in the area, near-by colleges with earth science programs or geological formation maps. While you're at it, take a piece of the rock to the college, or even a high school science teacher, for identification. And try the "ask a geologist" service Doug recommended. For that, it will help if you can get a topographic map of the area and pinpoint your location on it. Sporting goods or hunting stores will sometimes have those maps. Good luck. — E.
#164553From: STEVEJan 25, 1995 6:26 PM
Elizabeth:Thanks for your help. I suspected a limey sandstone but,was not sure! Your answer convinced me! I did the acid test it fizzes! The color did not change from the original limestone. It was the same varved blue grey rock that we have been dealing with for months.The only change that we noticed was that we could not break it using our same techniques. I was curious so I broke a fresh sample It looked the same except the sparkle of fine 1 to 5 micron quartz.At least it is not pure sandstone here in VA we hate sandstone It is very difficult to deal with! The only thing we can do is blast blast blast and lose money Hope we run out of it soon! Thank you very much for your help. Steve
#164558From: STEVEJan 25, 1995 6:38 PM
Elizabeth: You might be interested to know that this formation is located in Daleville,Va 137 feet from the top of a hill that is the eastern drainage divide. Thanks again for your help. Steve Rossi; Blue Ridge, Va.
#164493From: SyndesisJan 25, 1995 10:07 AM
Was there a color change associated with the new rock? When you say "specks of quartz", do you mean you see distinct grains of quartz sand, or do you mean the rock sparkles, like a quartzite?
#164556From: STEVEJan 25, 1995 6:35 PM
John: I am convinced that It is a limey sandstone! It was difficult to tell because it looked (same color blue/grey and marbled like the limestone that we were going through for 5 miles.The only change was we could no longer break it and it had fine grains 1 to 5 micron grains of quartz. I'm not adept at geology but,I suspect we are in some type of contact zone boundary rock! Do you know of some good basting techniques for sandstone I have never found one. Thanks for your help. Steve Rossi
#164617From: Don KenneyJan 26, 1995 3:26 AM
It sounds like you've run into quartzite — a sandstone with the grains tightly welded to each other. That stuff is usually very hard, but brittle. If I were you, I'd contact a local geologist. He/she should be able to figure out where you are in the geological column, what you are dealing with, and how thick your new formation probably is. Might even be able to recommend the best way to break up the rock.
#164689From: STEVEJan 26, 1995 6:24 PM
Don: Thanks for the reply! I think I now have a handle on the type of rock that I have encountered.It must be what Elizabeth called limeysandstone. I can tell you it looks brittle but, It absorbs energy like crazy! We have increased our dynamite ratio to twice what we have been using it is now digable( barely) we only have a few 1000 ft to go so I guess we will survive it. We now are more wary of this type of formation.By the way we encountered the formation 125 feet from the eastern drainage divide in Cloverdale,Virginia. This may be sugnificant to an experienced geologist!We have excavated in this area for years and have never run into this! Thanks for your reply! Come see us in VA if you want to see very tough Rock!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Steve Rossi/Blueridge, Virginia