#3DS2 crashes
14 messages in this thread
I'm using a multifunction IDE controller with integrated serial and
parallel ports. I sometimes get a reboot when using boolean to create an
object. I'm trying to do an intersection of three different objects. (The
letters "G E & B" for you Hofstadter fans) The first two always work fine
and then when I try the third operation I always get a reboot after a few
minutes of Booleaning…
Trying to do a triple letter intersection would be very tricky, since the
Boolean code was really only designed for relatively simple booleans. It
DEFINITELY should NOT crash the machine, however… if the boolean fails,
it should just bring up an alert saying that it can't complete the
operation. How much memory do you have, and do you think you're paging to
disk when you're doing the operation?
– G
I'm running on a 486-50 with 16 meg RAM. Disk paging is not occuring when
the boolean fails. The triple letter boolean is certainly a challenge for
it… Oh well…
Even so…. it's a FANTASTIC program!
Good work!
Troy,
Just listening in on your boolean adventures. A triple-letter
intersection (I read the H book too!) was one of the first things I
attempted with 3DS booleans, with similar disapointing results. I even had
trouble with 2-letter intersections when the letters were complex. I
finally concluded that 3DS booleans were meant for simple objects, or at
least, one complex and one simple object. Sometimes they (the booleans)
work, sometimes they trash, and sometimes the crash!
I was sucessful, however, by using Autocad R12 AME, which seems more
robust with booleans (and MUCH quicker). I've made several multi-letter
intersections with it. Do you have AME? If not, I'd be glad to try to
make a mesh with your outlines. I made a G-E-B triple intersection this
afternoon and used three spots to make it look like what I remember of the
cover of Hofstadter's book (I can't find my copy <sob>.) Looks great! If
you'd like, I can send you the .3ds file to play with.
************** O great wise YOST GROUPies **************:
Any chance of stealing the AME boolean code for 3DS land? (It's probably
not that simple, huh?)
JKJ (if at first you don't succeed, try something else!)
JKJ,
We can't use the AME boolean code, because they use the PADL system, which
constrains the use of their booleans on specific classes of objects. Our
routines must be more generalized, and cannot be class-specific. You're
absolutely right in your assessment that 3DS booleans are for sculpting
objects, not for complex object unions. The best use of them is between
two relatively simple objects, or one complex object and one simple
(sculpting) object.
– G
I've found the same thing – the boolean operations work best with simple
objects. I found that they sometimes result in stranded vertices – if I cut
a thick disk in half by subtracting a box from the full disk I sometimes
get a vertex or two floating out in space.
The most annoying thing that has ever happened with a boolean operation is
that I do a subtraction and my system reboots! It has only happened a
couple of times, but it is a **real** surprise when it happens. It has only
happened when I've done a number of boolean operations on the same part.
Chris
If you can find a reproducible case that would either create stranded
vertices or crash the system, I'd _love_ to see it. If I had something
concrete, we could do something about it. Note that it _has_ to be a
reproducible case. Keep that in mind, and I'd really appreciate it if you
could come up with something for me.
Thanks,
– G
Gary,
Being a Boolean Basher myself, I've had numerous strange things happen
in addition to a few reboots. Part of the trouble may be my interpretation
of the expession on page 7-56: "when a Boolean operation fails…" The
text seems to indicate a "failure" will always be accompanied by the dialog
box, indicating remedial action is required. When stray or "wild"
verticies are left after a Boolean, does this constitute a (non-messaged)
"failure" (which is my problem), or a bug? (which is your problem)
Anyway, the file JKJTEST.ZIP has TEST4.3DS (the initial) and TEST4A.3DS
(the result) of a pair of simple Booleans with unplanned results. TEST4
has three boxes, I'll call Small, Medium, and Big.
– In the Front view, CREATE/OBJECT/BOOLEAN, select Small, then
Medium, and UNION.
– Select the resulting object, then Big, and INTERSECTION. The
result should be the same as TEST4A.3DS
The strange thing is that different "wild" verticies result depending on
the order of object selection for the UNION. In addition, no problem
results if the order of object selection for the INTERSECTION is reversed
(i.e., pick Big before picking the intermediate object).
No real big deal, but annoying (especially if I don't HOLD or don't
notice a problem until looking at it later from a different view!) (Hey,
how about multiple HOLD buttons, or (gasp!) UNDO?)
I sent JKJTEST.ZIP to 76702,413 by CIS-mail if I did it right. (Upload,
Binary?) I'll try to duplicate MY last Boolean crash later.
JKJ (so much fun, so little time…)
The Eternal Golden Braid lives on… 🙂
Using AME does sound like the answer. I'm not an Autocad user though.
(The budget does not allow it since I'm just starting to grow beyond
obsession into profession and I have only intermittant access to the 3DS
manuals and that darn key) I would love to have your GEB mesh.
Speaking of meshes… I've noticed that while rendered images abound here
and elsewhere, I rarely see anyone's mesh files available for DL.
I'd like to check out some other people's meshes, materials and such.
The .3DS file also tends to be a bit smaller than a .FLC!
Thanks… -L-a-s-e-r–*
…obsession thru possession to …, the braid continues to entwine.
I, too, wonder about the scarcity of meshes; cheaper to DL and lots more
fun! Maybe people are afraid their latest creation will show up on channel
10 making money for someone else? Personally, I like the Stone Soup Group
credo ("Don't want money. Got money. Want admiration.") That's living!
I tried to upload the GED.3DS today and got cut off somehow – if I can't
get it there by tomorrow I'll CIS-mail it to you. I drew the (simple
block) letters in ACAD – if you want to put some thought into a better
design I'll be glad to try running it through AME (I'm in this strictly for
fun, and that's what I call fun!)
Hope you get your own 3DS soon, however you may never get much sleep
again <g>. I agree that the "darn" key is a nuisance, but probably deemed
necessary by the Autodesk corporate shadows – there's an unfortunate
infection of dishonesty in the world. On the other hand, … nah, I'll
save my philosophy on software protection for another day…
JKJ (protecting my "key" with my life)
P.S., what does -L-a-s-e-r–* stand for?
I bet your thoughts on software protection and pricing is similar to mine.
Personally I think almost all software distributors shoot themselves inn
the foot so to speak by keeping costs high and completely ignoring the fact
that the cost to them to duplicate software is miniscule. "The market is
small so the cost must be high"
Well why do they think the market IS small? 'Cause the cost is so high!!
I'll be the first to admit that programs like 3DS are a bargain as it is in
the world of professional computer graphics, but it's a shame that is must
be kept out of the hands of so many talented individuals who are the very
people who need to be involved in the industry if it is to reach it's true
potential. Perhaps there should be a mono or 8 bit only version that is
available to the rest of us…
Anyway, -L-a-s-e-r–* was (and will always be) my alias in the game of
PHOTON. I was a technician at the PHOTON arena in Va Beach. If you never
heard of it, as many haven't, it was like "LAZER TAG" with the addition of
a 10,000 sq foot arena. Photon was an INCREDIBLE game that died of
extremely poor management and the fact that it happened just a few years
before computer technology was really capable of letting it reach it's real
potential. Someday, with all the current talk of VR and such things, the
world will be ready to do something like PHOTON again. When that happens, I
plan to be there.
-L-a-s-e-r–*
I think Autodesk products (and others) are high, but not too high for
what you get – I write software myself and have a healthy respect for what
is involved. The ONLY realistic price moderator is volume with compitition
– look at PC hardware in the last 15 years! As for 3DS, who knows what the
market/price curve would look like. My biggest gripe about Autodesk pricing
is the support you get per dollar. I buy a $300 Microsoft or ZSoft or CSC
product and can call and get excellent support. I buy a $3000 Autodesk
product and I get to call my dealer (HAHA!) Is Autodesk that much (you
pick) <poorer, greedier, smarter, lazier, …> than the others that they
can't offer telephone support??? An excellent imponderable…
As for software protection, I could rant for hours, but an example may
be enough: Years ago I "borrowed" a copy of AutoCAD 1.3 and used it until
I bought my own. Since then, I've probably been responsible for nearly 100
AutoCAD sales. If the original copy had been protected, I would never have
used it, and could never have recommended it. The same with 3DS – I could
not afford to shell out $3000 without test driving first. I'll borrow,
beg, or steal, and try it out, but I'll ALWAYS buy what I use. (just ask my
wife!)
Anyway, I don't think 3DS needs to be copy protected – can you imagine
trying to get any real use out of it without the manuals!?! (although it
sometimes seems like we try, huh, Mr. Yost? <g>)
JKJ (OK, I'll quit now)
P.S. Did you get the GEB mesh?
Awww… c'mon, John. If you were a REAL mutant, you'd be able to use 3DS
without the manuals. Just close your eyes, grab the mouse, and intuit it!
– G
Awww… c'mon, John. If you were a REAL mutant, you'd be able to use 3DS
without the manuals. Just close your eyes, grab the mouse, and intuit it!
– G
PS: But then, you wouldn't get the CD-ROM… <g>