#3000t configuration
22 messages in this thread
Hi, I've been lurking in the background of this forum for
quite a bit and I guess it's time for me to step out and put some
questions to you folks.
My wife and I have recently started a business at home
publishing a group of local health magazines. Are problem is that we
have to upgrade our computer situation.
I still have my 1000 at home and frankly, I still love the
Amiga. When I first went out hunting for a computer I had worked on
apples and ibms but when I ran into the Amiga it was love at first
sight. I thought then that even if it was orphaned it would still
make a great home computer. (My Amiga is the center of all my home
electronic stuff.) I had been thinking of upgrading for quite some
time but both the 500 and 2000 used essentially the same cpu so I
didn't feel I could justify buying either. Finally, the 3000 came out
but having felt the trap of having no expansion space I couldn't see
getting the 3000 either. The 3000t came out but C= decided to put the
price in the outer atmosphere. The 1200 and 4000 came out but the ide
and lack of expansion on the 1200 makes it out of the question. The
4000 has more room but the same ide and my periperals are scsi.
It is decision time. I would like to get a 3000t 040. In it I
would need to put a GVP phone pak for the business calls and faxes. I
want to put in a Emplant mac emulation so I can communicate better
with the magazine's designer and various printers. I also need ibm so
I can communicate with writers and for the business software. Further
down the road it is anticipated that we may also want some video
editing capability.
I've heard that UU is coming out with a 486 emulator for the
Emplant but I haven't heard how much extra the board would cost.
My wife would just as soon get a beemer but I can hold her off
if I can swing this idea of a multi-platform system.
Any and all suggestions would be helpful.
If you want a 3000T get it NOW! They are being blown out mail order and
can be had dirt cheap.
//
-Karl \X/ Amiga and Autopilot: The *only* way to fly!
Karl,
Where can I get one of these *dirt cheep* 3000T's ???? I called a place in
Canada and they were sold out 8(.
Still looking,
— Peter.
Try Creative. They sold out too but were supposed to be getting more.
//
-Karl \X/ Amiga and Autopilot: The *only* way to fly!
I think the Emplant board is a great way to go. I use one in my 3000
and it runs loads of Mac software that has kept our family business
running like clockwork. When the IBM compatability comes out for it
I'll be one of the first to pay for it. Jim has said that $99 is the
highest future emulations would cost.
I would definitely go th 040 route as well. My 3000/16 is just way to
slow with the Emplant.
Also, check with GVP about the phone program as I recall some kind of
memory problem with the 3000 and PhonePak. Easily solved I think but you
should still be aware of it.
\*donovan*\
Donovan
If I get a 3000t the first thing I would do is replace that busted
buster. Is the replacement, the rev 11 buster chip?
Michael
Do you know who has any 3000Ts left for sale? If you do please post it here.
I'd like to get one.
Chris
Not off hand. But where I live the Amiga was and is a pretty
popular item. They trade them around pretty good here. (Michigan
State University). I didn't think I would have a problem once I
started to look.
In the latest AmigaWorld (Dec 1993), a place in Canada is selling
3000Ts for $798. The ad is on page 88.
They are SOLD OUT..as are all of the others in AW that I called a week
ago. Software Hut, which advertised A3000s for sale, said theirs
never came in. It may be that the inventory is finally gone.
Beats me. I wish I had a 3000T let alone a busted buster to replace.
\*donovan*\
What does "communicating with writers and for the business software"
and "communicate with the magazine's designer and various printers"
really mean? If your writers submit articles on a disk format you
can read (ASCII on PC format?), why do you need to be able to run Mac
software? What advantage would there really be? If your designer is
producing final layout and camera ready copy, s/he probably only
needs ASCII in, and why do you need to be able to run the layout
software on your computer? You're looking at spending a heck of a
lot of money for features you may not need or use.
Whether the Emplant 486 emulation is useful really depends on whether
it can run Windows without you adding a VGA card and monitor and a PC
keyboard. At that point, you might as well buy a PC anyway.
Theoritically, it shouldn't be any problem for them to write Windows
drivers for Amiga hardware, but I don't know if they plan to. And
Emplant's Mac emulation took months to settle out and become useble,
so if their PC emulation isn't shipping today, but they're promissing
to ship RSN, I'd plan on not buying it until at least May or June.
You are definately going to want a heck of a lot of memory in this system.
A modern Mac really wants 8 megs, as does a modern PC, and an Amiga can
easily use that much, so you'll want 16 megs minimum, possibly more.
You are going to need even more HD space. Windows + Microsoft Office
alone takes 60+ megs for a full installation, so you need *at least*
120megs of HD for the PC stuff. Your Mac software is likely to take the
same. So you really should get a HD with 500megs *minimum*.
Sounds like you are looking at an easy $3500+ before you start buying
software. Just a 3000T040, 486 or 040 Mac would run you about $1600. Your
requirements, as far as I can tell, really only call for a need to run
business software including voice mail, with a little bit of "gee it might
be useful" about running the same software your contracters/employees
use.
Toys are neat. You can show them off, they make you feel good, and he who
dies with the most of them wins. If you want toys, spend the $3500+.
If you are making purely a business desicion, it sounds like you might
be better off buying a PC to run your business software and answer
your phone and letting the people who do your writing and layout use
their own computers to finish their work. Amigas aren't good at
business software, and PCs are cheaper/better supported than Macs in
that area.
If your wife wants it to be purely a business decision (so she can by
her Bavarian Motor Works toy) and you want it to be a toy decision,
then discuss it in those terms rather than trying to argue about who
can better "justify" their toys 🙂
Dear Dale
First, thank you for your reply. Next, there is a very good
reason for having the ability to see what your designer has done
electronically. If you know anything about publishing magazines then
you know that the designers continually complain about what the
printers fault is and the printer continually complains about what
the designers fault is. This also happens at newspapers. My designer
tries out all sorts of things and we spend our time trudling up the
road and holding these discussions then we take a syquest from him
and pray to god he got it right. We have to pray because we have no
way of viewing his work accept through his computer, therefore are
input is limited.
We have already had one major screw up. One that we could
have prevented if we had a mac.
Most of our writers use IBM's, a few macs and some even
Amigas. The type of writers we use are generally not professional
freelancers and when asked to do anything other than send the disk or
print it out disaster occurs. If at all possible I think I can have
one or two major beemer word processors and I can get around this
problem or at least keep it to a minimum.
Indeed IBM has the best business software. I wouldn't run
Windows, however. I am strictly a dos man. At present, I work with
spreadsheets and databases on a beemer and have found that Windows is
for people that do not wish to learn about the machine.
The prices that I have seen for a good message, system and fax
run at about 600 bucks. The phone pak beats that to hell. Since I've
already lost 500 bucks on a blown ad that would have got me an
Emplant. I write good spreadsheets and databases and I can fill my
needs on as little as a 286 or 386 sx. It seemed to me, that far from
the Amiga being a toy that It would, in these circumstances be a cost
effective way to have needed capacity and still do it at some sort of
reasonable price. I have the software for these puppies and it is NOT
pirated.
I figured 1200 for a 3000t with 8 megs ram. 300 for phone
pak. 500 for and Emplant and 300 for some type of bridgeboard. That
puts me at about 2300 but it covers what I need or does it?
Michael Barker
Sounds like a plan, but toss in a Zorro II memory board as well, the Phone
Pak doesn't like the 3000's somewhat busted buster.
// Brian — Cruising on AutoPilot…..
\X/
What software is your designer using on what platform? PageMaker,
for example, requires 5megs to run, which means your system is going
to need more than 8megs of RAM to run PageMaker on Emplant. Or it's
going to mean that a bridgeboard is inadequate without a lot of
expansion. Also note the the bridgeboard won't allow VGA (much less
SVGA) without expantion and a second monitor or switchbox. The fact
that you are strictly a DOS person is fine, but the software you want
to run might not be available for DOS forever. And you are going to
have to add hard drive space. 100 or 200 megs is barely adequate for
one computer and won't be enough for just the operating systems of
three computers.
BTW, do you already have a monitor or do you need to add that into
your price? Does the 500 for Emplant include Mac ROMs (sounds like
it probably does). You also haven't included the cost of software.
PageMaker, for example, runs about $600. Word about $250.
WordPerfect about the same. If you can settle for one piece of
software to import things into to check, you could save a substantial
amount of money.
By toy, I didn't mean uncapable. I call a lot of cars toys. That
doesn't mean that they can't go fast and do everything that any other
car can, it just means that they were bought more for fun than for
practicle — purely practical purchase would have been less
expensive.
Dale Larson
– An Amiga Software Engineer with less and less time on his hands.
Dale
My designer run Quark and Photoshop not to mention various little bits
and pieces of shareware. I have a syquest right now and I would plan on using
various syquests for the different systems.
The point on more ram is well taken. So you think 16 megs is the
minimum?
No, I don't have a monitor but I figured I'd have to get a new one no
matter what I did.
As far as my dos software being headed for obsolescence, I don't think
that is going to be a real problem. The beemer software that I have will handle
any financial matters I can get into. No, It will not get the newer bells and
whistles but frankly I haven't found much need for the old bells and whistles.
By the time my software is useless, probably the ibm, amiga and mac will be
useless catagories as well.
I am trying to avoid the situation that I see looming ahead. Even my
wife can envision us having 2 or 3 separate systems. If you put in all the
hardware, ie scanners, printers, copiers then I am going to have to move out of
the house.
In 2 years I see myself producing videos that augment the magazine.
Communicating with various ibm platforms and battling designers and printers
with mac software.
My thought is that if I start out flexible now. I can save some money
further up the road. With this Amiga system, I see myself adding capabilities
as I need them, without scrapping the whole lot and starting over
Here is the real question to be answered. If I chose a beemer would it
get me there and would it do it cheaper? If I chose the mac would it get the
job done? If I stay with the amiga is that going to do it?
Whatever, I will have to come up with a plan and start implementing it
soon.
Michael
I'm not talking about your business software that is going to require
Windows, I'm talking about your designers' and writers'.
Don't Quark and Photoshop both have Windows versions? I think so. Whether
you run them on the PC or on the Mac, you are going to want a much better
display (i.e., megapixel) than the Amiga supports without a graphics add
on board, so don't forget to throw in a $600 piccaso board or something.
I don't think you are going to need 2 or 3 systems. I think you can do
like most people and make do with 1. The fact of the matter is that damn
near every popular piece of software for what you are doing is available
for DOS or Windows. Since Macs can write DOS disks, sounds like a Mac is a
luxury. I haven't heard that you are doing anything with your Amiga, so
that sounds like a luxury, too.
RE: videos in two years — You will have a lot of money and equipment to
purchase then. A then-current Amiga will be better anyway. Not to
mention the video people use maxed out Amigas and then whine for more
*without* also sharing memory and HD with two other operating systems.
Forget it for now, worry about it in two years.
If you can survive with just a Mac, an 040 Amiga with Emplant *might* be a
better Mac for less money. A PC is definately a better PC than anything
you can get on the Amiga, and cheaper too.
From everything I've heard, if I'm in your position of wanting one system
that does as much as possible, I buy a high-end, tricked out PC system
with a wicked display, 16 or more megs of memory, 1gig+ SCSI HD, Windows
or OS/2, Quark, Photoshop, and MicroSoft Office (Word will very easily
read WP files, and any number of others). You haven't said anything other
than "maybe videos in two years" that a PC isn't going to do cheaper and
as well or better. If I found that all of the software I wanted really
was available for the Mac more than for the PC, then I compare features
and price of one of the new CentrisAVs with an 040 Amiga with Emplant and
Picasso (or whatever).
Dale Larson
– An Amiga Software Engineer with less and less time on his hands.
Dale,
Just to poke in here, the latest prices on the new Mac Quadras (old
Centris models) are under $1,500 without monitor and with 040s. The smallest
one is available for under $1,000 (sans monitor) with a 25 Mhz 040. Apple is
finally getting their prices competitive. The Amiga 4000 isn't really that
price competitive any more.
Steven-
What many people don't realize is that these 040's are actually EC040 or
LC040 processors.
-Jonathan
// Amiga online via Autopilot
\\// MAC Quadra 700 & 486 emulation via Amiga!
Dale
I see what you're saying but that seems an awful lot of beemer.
The beemers basic use would be as a word processor or processor platform. The
business software is gravy. I am doing the books and the data processing using
Amiga software. It took a bit more to do but it works.
I should admit now that I don't like beemers very much. I use them
because they are the business standard but I have never thought much of them.
They have few standards and the computer is basically the 8088 with rockets
attached. I ran an Amiga 1000 for 5 years. I did everything on it from graphing
non-linear systems, writing a book to playing music-not to mention using its
video capabilities at home. In that time I have had 4 beemers go obsolete on
me.
The thought of bringing a beemer home to serve all my needs is,
frankly, worrying. Sinking a lot of bucks into one then fighting through its
software conflicts and knowing that if I add something else I've got to go
through the same crap again, causes grinding of teeth.
I am writing this on a beemer that inexplicably killed 3 months worth
of data. The more advanced my beemers have gotten, the more temperamental they
have become. If this beemer had done to my business what it just did for my
job, I would be in serious deep doo doo.
I don't know about macs but I do know they are central to the
publishing industry. I do know Amiga's and where ever my mind wandered I was
able to take the computer with me. If I had bought a 2000 this would not have
come up. I would have long ago placed an amax and bridgeboard in it and would
have found the solutions which would have allowed me to manage the problem.
Sigh, It is getting to be decision time and I still feel in a quandary.
Michael
Good luck in making your decision, and let us know how things work out for
you once you do.
BTW, I finally got a little less confused. I realized that you
didn't mean a Bavarian Motor Works vehicle when you said Beemer.
Since this started with "I wanna buy an A3000T with… but my wife
wants a Beemer", you can understand my confusion between BMW and IBM
— wives usually like non-computers better than they like computers.
RE: Mac central to publishing industry: It's well-established in
some shops and completely foriegn in others. 5 years ago, I would
have said definately Mac, a year or two ago I would have said
"toss-up", today, I can't see what you can get for Mac software that
isn't available for the PC, but the converse is not true.
Michael;
You are exactly the sort of person that I would push to get the Amiga
(something that I did not realize in your original posting). A person
that has become accustomed to Ami and AmiDOS is often miserable with other
platforms.
Many DOS type people have trouble with the Ami in much the same way that
they have trouble with Unix. When it comes to manipulating data the
question is seldom "Can I do this?" but rather "Which of the many ways to
do this is best?".
The most serious issue (which Dale aptly pointed out) is the
difficulty of dealing with SOME foreign platform data. ASCII text
will obviously be no problem. Most, so called "graphics" standards
will not be much of a problem either. It is primarily when you much
run a particular program to deal with someone's proprietary data
format that you could have problems. If you feel comfortable that
the folks that you are dealing with will not be driving you to exceed
the "emulation" capability of the Ami then at least I know which way
I would go… even if the expense is greater. After all, your own
sanity is worth something!
-bill