CompuServe Thread

#386 BB memory mess

20 messages in this thread
#121342From: don myklebustNov 10, 1993 9:18 AM
2386 BB w/5 megs total, Diamond SpeedstarPro, Soundblaster 2.0 in a 2000. Janus that came with it.. 2.1, I think; MessyDos 5.0. How do you get pgms to 'loadhigh' or 'devicehigh', as appropriate? The Janus EMM doesn't seem to support this. Himem loaded DOS high ok, but Amouse, Ansi.sys or anything else I've tried just sit there. This started when an aviation utility needed Ansi.sys to unscramble its screen. First time I've needed it. Thinking I was going to run this program fairly often I put ansi in the config.sys. Well, the very next thing I ran grumped about not enough memory and quit. I had run this program many times before. Some time ago I had done the DOS=high,umb trick, but had stopped there. 602,xxx seemed to be working. I've spent the last couple of evenings with a boot floppy and EMM386. That does the trick, but the EMS/XMS equation seems to be messed up. I don't understand this, anyway. Extended (2 kinds? confusing), expanded (durnedest thing I ever saw.. page frames, indeed..), HMA, UMB… bah. I hate these ibms. Hope someone will help. -DonM – On Autopilot from 1Q1 – Chickenlips doesn't sell Amigas, we just buy them!
#121603From: Brian BartlettNov 13, 1993 12:22 AM
Don, I had the same problem with MS-DOS 5.0 and my A2386SX; DeviceHigh and LoadHigh didn't. When I upgraded to MS-DOS 6.0 (and just last week to 6.2), things started working just fine. What I think happened, and somebody check me on this, is that EMM.SYS didn't support this feature. EMM386.EXE in MS-DOS 5.0 wouldn't work on the BB, for me. Well, that's all changed. I tried EMM386.EXE in MS-DOS 6.0 and it worked just fine, thank you. I then tried Memmaker, and d*mn*d if that didn't work as well. I just checked, and I've got 2.12 MB of stuff stuffed into extended memory. Works fine, lasts long time. BTW, if you do decide to upgrade, and you don't have either a high-density 3.5 or 5 1/4 drive, use another machine to copy the files onto low-density diskettes, copy these files from the low-density disks to a sub-directory of your IBM partition, and run the installation program (Setup). It never notices that the disks aren't there. I hope this helps. Brian bjbart@watnxt01.ucr.edu
#121616From: don myklebustNov 13, 1993 8:05 AM
Thank you. Good info. I hope I can go from 5.0 straight to 6.2 w/o buying 6.0. Bet not, though. <sigh> EMM386 seemed to work, but Checkit skipped the Extended memory test even though it otherwise reported its presence. Made me nervous, so I'm back with EMM. -DonM – On Autopilot from 1Q1 – Chickenlips doesn't sell Amigas, we just buy them!
#121682From: Brian BartlettNov 14, 1993 1:42 AM
Don, 6.2 is on the streets. I saw it in Software, Etc. Thursday. They even have a full version that comes with Dan Gookin's Book. Brian bjbart@watnxt01.ucr.edu
#121707From: don myklebustNov 14, 1993 9:51 AM
>6.2 is on the streets. I saw it in Software, Etc. Thursday. They even >have a full version that comes with Dan Gookin's Book. Gookin… That's the stuff that's, '<whatever> For You Idiots', right? Something like that… mumble mumble. Anyway, thanks for the good info.
#121782From: Brian BartlettNov 15, 1993 4:38 AM
yep, that Dan Gookin. I met him several years ago, back about the time Byte threatened to sue the local rag for trademark infringement (it was called ByteBuyer).
#121966From: daniel stripesNov 17, 1993 2:40 AM
Haven't heard of or seen the ByteBuyer since I left San Diego several years ago. Is that rag still in print? // daniel on autopilot in paradise \X/ with intel and motorola inside
#122407From: Brian BartlettNov 21, 1993 12:11 AM
Daniel, the last time I looked, it was thriving. Perhaps it's time to log onto "The MouseTrap" and check in with the Scum Diego crowd. Brian bjbart@watnxt01.ucr.edu
#121975From: don myklebustNov 17, 1993 6:49 AM
Funny how things come in bunches. The latest Amiga Report has a tirade in it with a tone similar to the intent of my smart-alecky remarks. I d/led AR and posted that message in the same AP session. Great minds.. -DonM – On Autopilot from 1Q1 – Chickenlips doesn't sell Amigas, we just buy them!
#121693From: Mike HobartNov 14, 1993 3:35 AM
MSDOS 6.2 is a bug patch for 6.0 and you HAVE to have 6.0 also. I believe that Microsoft is now selling combined upgrades.
#121706From: don myklebustNov 14, 1993 9:51 AM
>MSDOS 6.2 is a bug patch for 6.0 and you HAVE to have 6.0 also. I >believe that Microsoft is now selling combined upgrades. That would figure, considering who and what we're dealing with. phphphphtt.. -DonM – On Autopilot from 1Q1 – Chickenlips doesn't sell Amigas, we just buy them!
#121783From: Brian BartlettNov 15, 1993 4:38 AM
sorry, but that information is incorrect. There is a package out that includes all of MS-DOS for revision 6.2, not just an update. The update itself is sold as a single diskette in a mailer type package. The whole package is sold with 3 diskettes, and if you wish, a book as well.
#121736From: Don Curtis/SYSOPNov 14, 1993 3:38 PM
Don, you can go from 5.0 to 6.2 only if you buy the whole package from Microsoft. If you already had 6.0, you could have downloaded the upgrade to 6.2 here on CIS. Don
#121976From: don myklebustNov 17, 1993 6:49 AM
Yup, figured as much. Wonder how much a person has spent on MessyDog if he's kept up since, say, '83? A local IBM type guru-expert-hacker tells me not to bother with 6.x. He says I'll get along just fine for the forseeable with 5.0 and QEMM. Fine with me. -DonM – On Autopilot from 1Q1 – Chickenlips doesn't sell Amigas, we just buy them!
#122065From: Don Curtis/SYSOPNov 18, 1993 12:36 AM
Don, There are definate advantages of 6.2 on a new system (the included utilities)…but for someone with a decent utility set…5.0 is fine. Don
#122192From: don myklebustNov 19, 1993 5:17 AM
Got QEMM. Set the page frame to E000 and excluded D000-DFFF. MFT reports all the expected things, plus some things I didn't know. I now have 628224 free. That oughta do it. Also _finally!!_ got it through my thick skull that EMS and XMS with the DOS emulators like QEMM and EMM386 actually coincide (overlap?.. whatever). The afore-mentioned local sysop was the one who provided the very lengthy explanation of this. At the end of my query message, I had added a little smart-alecky one-liner the went something like, "Am I too dumb for this MessyDos stuff … or too smart?". Treating it seriously, he added this to the end of the explanation: "No, you're not dumb, you started with the next generation and are working backwards. Your system provides virtual resources all the time, but you don't know how." Pretty good of him, huh?
#121634From: Steven D. KapplinNov 13, 1993 2:01 PM
Don, Amouse won't load high, so that solves that problem. You shouldn't be using any expanded memory manager like the Janus EMM because DOS 5.x and higher have their own memory management. If you need to allocate expanded memory, then get something like QEMM or DRDOS 6.0. However, be sure you understand that the Janus software utilizes upper memory between D000-D800. When you load in your video drivers into upper memory they will usually take the space between A000 and BFFF. As you load other things into upper memory the amount of contiguous ram available gets chewed up. You may find that the last program you try to load doesn't find enough ram in whcih to run, thus the out of memory message. Generally, the best thing to do is to experiment. Run the programs high that use the most ram first, then one by one add more in decreasing memory load order until you find how many you can actually put into upper memory. High memory is the 64K space just above 1 meg. Usually only operating system software loads up there. If you play to run Windows or other more modern software, then EXTENDED memory is the main concern. Few new programs use expanded memory. Furthermore, expanded memory requires a 64K window reserved in upper memory, which detracts from ram available to load other programs/TSRs into upper memory. You can experiment with all this by first booting with NOTHING in upper memory other than your video stuff. Then add program, run the DOS MEM.COM program to see what's happended. Gradually, add programs. Remember that you need to set HIMEM for DOS loaded high. You can try to run programs in high memory using the the LOADHIGH command. You must have dos=umb setin config.sys for a program to be loaded into upper memory. Also remember that not all programs will run in upper memory. Amouse.com is one. You can run it with loadhigh, but it will always run in conventional memory. It was not compiled to run outside of conventional memory.
#121685From: Brian BartlettNov 14, 1993 1:43 AM
Steven, one more interesting thing that I ran into when using Memmaker. It picked up on the Janus reserved area and excluded it without any input from me. Maybe MicroSloth get's it right for once <g>. Brian bjbart@watnxt01.ucr.edu
#121713From: Steven D. KapplinNov 14, 1993 11:59 AM
Brian, Actually most memory managers will do the same. I use DRDOS and have used an earlier version of QEMM and both find and exclude the Janus segment.
#121784From: Brian BartlettNov 15, 1993 4:38 AM
Steven, it suprised me at the time, given that earlier packages did not. I guess it's current technology now. Brian bjbart@watnxt01.ucr.edu