CompuServe Thread

#Video "NOISE"#$!?@!

16 messages in this thread
#36050From: Jim BroekNov 19, 1993 5:25 PM
I've got problems with signal interferance on my Toaster/KitchenSync/ AG1970 edit system. I get "noise" on my video appearing in the form of irregular horizontal and vertical bars. I recently purchased about 400.00 worth of Canare top grade cables from MarkerTech, so I know my cables aren't the problem. BTW all the cables are 6 Feet, no adaptors and sheilded. I have attempted to separate my Video cables from my A/C cables as much as possible by running all AC connections down on floor level, and keeping my Video cables tied and suspended at Desk level, therefore I have no paralell running only the inevitable crossings. I'm wondering if I'm getting RF from my 1084S'? By running the video at desk level they are in close proximity to these monitors. Any suggestions on shielding my video cables further? What material should be used for this if it is a valid option? Any info or other experiences dealing with eliminating video NOISE would be appreciated.
#36059From: JERRY HATCHETTNov 19, 1993 11:27 PM
Quite possibly a lot of your video noise is due to a design flaw within the Kitchen Sync. I posted a note about some noise with my system a few days ago, and very quickly had 2 or 3 responses from other KS owners describing the same or similar noise problems. I think we should start voicing our opinion to the manufacturer…
#36091From: Anthony RamirezNov 21, 1993 9:25 PM
Maybe you guys should also call the Digital Creation BBS and leave a note there too. At least others that may be interested in a Kitchen Sync will be aware of what is going on. Digital Creations BBS: 1-916-983-3288 <<< Tony D. Tracer >>> (Any render time >0 needs acceleration.)
#36099From: JERRY HATCHETTNov 22, 1993 11:19 AM
Tony D., Thanks for posting that BBS #. I'll indeed post a note on it today! Jerry
#36078From: Paul ToalNov 21, 1993 1:31 AM
A lot of your problem is coming from the Kitchen Synch. It is a bad TBC, that's why it's so cheap. Bump yourself up a notch in TBC quality and you will be pleased with the results. Here's the kicker, make absolutely sure you don't have cable (the service) hooked up to any monitors or VCRs. This is the vertical lines, TBCs are the horizontal lines.
#36104From: Jim BroekNov 22, 1993 4:10 PM
Hey, I do have a cable feed into my VTR!! I definately will disable that before my next editing session. Thanks, Jim
#36117From: JERRY HATCHETTNov 22, 1993 11:48 PM
I disconnected all cable feeds into my system; noise still there… 🙁
#36133From: Jim BroekNov 23, 1993 4:32 PM
My next potential solution, I've just ordered several TripLite Isobar surge protectors. What looks different to me on these is that it not only protects the equipment from Line noise and surges coming in…but it isolates and prevents noise from the individual circuits. I do believe that I've got noise going between circuits on the equipment side of my surge protectors. Any other experience with defeating video 'noise'? I'm still not totally convinced that my Kitchen Synce is the culprit here, but I am preparing the budget to acquire a couple a DPS TBC IV's. If the KS is the problem, is it possible that only some are deficient or is it a design defect? Does anyone have a Kitchen Sync that supplies a totally clean signal? Later, Jim
#36136From: JERRY HATCHETTNov 23, 1993 7:25 PM
I almost ordered 2 TBC IV's today, but decided to wait on reponses from a couple of e-mails I sent asking about the performance of the IV's before I shell out hard earned bucks on them like I did the Kitchen Sync. I'm _convinced_ that the problem is in the Kitchen Sync, _and_ that it's just the way they are, i.e. design flaw. I've changed cables, added electrical surge protectors and noise isolation protectors. I've adjusted the Toaster via its software setup panel. I've isolated the trouble in my particular system, and it's in the KS. However, if you discover something different, _please_ let me know!
#36154From: Vince PilgrimNov 24, 1993 7:45 PM
Jerry, have you looked for a ground loop anywhere yet? I've had terrible problems with them in the past before I took everything to a common ground buss which was totally independent of the mains provided ground. Vince
#36158From: JERRY HATCHETTNov 24, 1993 11:16 PM
Vince, I've isolated grounds, connected grounds, turned off pieces of equipment one by one, disconnected them completely, virtually everything I could think of, _except_ actually creating a 'network' to ground everything to one wire, and then running it outside to a ground rod. Heck, I'll even try that. However, remember that my problem is definitely tied to the Kitchen Sync; i.e. the noise is not there when coming directly from source decks to monitors, nor is it there when feeding a camera signal directly through the Toaster without the Kitchen Sync. But, when I route the same camera signal through the Kitchen Sync, it _is_ there. I called my distributor today to order 2 TBC IV's, and they were out of stock…:( Thanks, Jerry
#36185From: Vince PilgrimNov 26, 1993 10:03 PM
Jerry, try this one for giggles; The TBC has a three pin grounded plug feeding the power supply, right? If so, stick a "cheater" on it to lift that pin from the mains ground and try putting it in the loop. I have piece of Panasonic trash that I have to do that with just to be able to use it as a source deck. There is something screwy within the power supply that I've yet to find that is injecting 25 kc garbage back into the signal ground with that ground pin connected, but not when isolated. Just left the cheater on and ran a piece of #12 solid to the frame ground and it works fine, but I be darned if I can figure out why it is this way. Spent about two months in the service manual and schematics with a scope trying to figure this one out and haven't made it yet <?>. In any case, just like those extra 1h delay lines in the chroma path that they seem to love so much, there are work arounds. That extra 63us of chroma delay will drive ya nuts trying to figure out why the chroma coincidence is all screwed up until you bypass and remove it <grin>. After that bit of circuit redesign, it is a semi-good playback deck, for S-VHS that is <g>. Vince
#36202From: JERRY HATCHETTNov 27, 1993 8:41 PM
Vince, The Kitchen Sync gets its power from the Amiga's motherboard, and the ground for the Amiga is already lifted from the mains ground, but not connected to the other equipment's ground loop. Think that'd be worth trying ?? Jerry
#36213From: Vince PilgrimNov 28, 1993 9:32 AM
Jerry, sorry about that <g>. Guess I'm so used to individual components that I forgot about the TBC being an integrail part of the Amiga system. Well, if the Amiga is floating from ground, you could give that a try but I'd think that the shields on the cables would bring everything into the loop. Never hurts to try something new, though. We've got a 16×4 copper plate which everything is tied to for a frame ground. That connects to the cold water pipe at the point which it comes in from the main feeder pipe and has a separate ground rod that is strapped to everything else. The ground from the buss ties back with RG-11 cable using the center conducter and the shield is tied in with a 0.01 capacitor to give some RF shielding (one of those old HAM radio tricks for an electrically short ground connection) since there are a couple of HF and VHF transmitters in use that will drive everything nuts without it. So far the only problem I've ever had was a difference between the mains ground and the frame ground. With everything going through an UPS, that was easy enough to solve by breaking the mains ground at the distribution point and using a common frame ground. Maybe not the best way of doing things, but it did solve a number of intermittent problems that were driving us nuts. Vince
#36222From: JERRY HATCHETTNov 28, 1993 6:51 PM
Vince, You've inspired me to go ahead and drive a ground rod outside and connect all my grounds to it; who knows, I may improve my audio and video in the process… Jerry
#36246From: Vince PilgrimNov 29, 1993 7:59 PM
Jerry, if you do, be sure to isolate everything from the mains ground to avoid a potential ground loop or tie that mains ground buss directly into it as the distribution with an electrically short connection. Luck to ya as I know first hand what a PITA stray garbage in the chain can be. Vince