#PAR and sound
34 messages in this thread
>>The editors automatically switch in high speed mode
Wasn't aware they could do that. Interesting!
Don,
I guess you caught my first message. I deleted it and rewrote you a second one
as I didn't think the first one was clear enough. On reflection I don't think
modern editors (last 4 years) slip as much as 1 frame but its been a very long
time since I used LTC exclusively (just doesn't seem that way <g>). But the
phase relationship for match frame is a 50/50 proposition which makes accurate
color framing with VITC a real necessity.
>> Wasn't aware they could do that. << Well I was kinda suprised by your
question as well as I assumed they all did. But then I thought about the frame
accuracy of some of these mid range editing systems and the added complexity of
color framing and realised that the technical demands of this capability is
probably what accounts for the cost difference. I'd be curious to know if the
Fast Video or the Matrox Studio can handle it with the right decks.
John
The big forte of the FAST is the ability to handle different types of TC from
different machines but I don't think it handles more than one per machine at a
time. There are some aspects of the submenus that I don't fully understand,
presently. I do know that for the pro decks like RS422 controlled you can
select both LTC and VITC at the same time but the deck has to have the readers
built in. If not then the VM only reads one at a time. I don't know anything
about the Matrox Studio except it has a bad rap for not working well in a
production environment.
Don
>> I do know that for the pro decks like RS422 controlled you can
select both LTC and VITC at the same time but the deck has to have
the readers built in. <<
So basically if you've got the readers it should be able to handle
it. Interesting. Not that readers are cheap but considering the
price of a good editor, I can see where the Fast machine would be an
attractive alternative, not to mention all its other features.
>>I don't know anything about the Matrox Studio except it has a bad
rap for not working well in a production environment. <<
I think this probably has more to do with the people who are setting
them up than anything else. The FAST Video system is sold S.D. by
Video dealers whereas the Matrox Studio is sold by Matrox resellers
who are Computer Graphics oriented. And the two worlds are still
miles apart. Its too bad because I really like the Ill Pro; its an
awesome board, and Matrox in general, as they're very innovative.
PMJI, but I just had a demo of the Pinnacle Aladdin system at a
client's place today, and wow, I was impressed! One of the nicest
features was that everything was real-time. The main difference
between that and the FAST is that the FAST includes machine control,
with the Aladdin, you still need a basic editor.
Has anyone else seen this, or have it, or just want an excuse to
comment? :^)
The Alladin is indeed quite impressive and the quality good too. Its
still computer technology though which means 30% of the claims are
vaporware and 50% of the stuff you do get has bugs. Isn't that the
way it is?
What's neat is that Alladin is porting a version of their system for
the FAST VM. Supposed to be out some time 2nd qtr next year. Its
intro price is 10,000 + 1500 for the YUV I/O. At that price its
still a ways in my future. <G>
What do you think about Razor PRO? I got the tech brief via fax and
it looks exciting.
Why would you want the FAST if you have the Alladin? I was under the
impression that an A/B roll editor (like the PVE-500 that I have)
would just plug in and you're off and running. (Aside from the fact
that I know you already have the FAST?)
>>Why would you want the FAST if you have the Alladin?
The Alladin will extend the FAST VM's capability to 3D DVE and that's
all. I am hoping that it (Alladin) will be a cut down version for
the FAST as some of the stand alone features won't be necessary. The
reason I went with the FAST VM is because I operate a MULTIFORMAT
edit suite with respect to deck control, Time code, and video
signal. The FAST VM was the only hardware that could do it all. eg.
Today I had to edit an 8 minute trailer for a 90 minute movie.
The source footage was on Hi8 with RCTC, Hi8 with RAPD TC, SVHS with
VITC, 3/4 with VITC, and Beta SP with LTC. With the VM I was able to
source each tape to an A/B roll edit to a beta SP master from the
originals. All decks were controlled frame accurate. Once done I
also had an EDL and a project file so that in the future I can pull
this master up in the computer and remake it and or modify modify
it. While the PVE-500 has many of these features too it still
requires a switcher for your effects, and only handles RS-422. I'm
not sure whether it handles both types of Hi8 time code or not.
Asside from these features the other reason I chose the FAST VM was
because it was an open ended architecture allowing for third party
"plugins" Like Inscriber, Quick Pass from Diaquest, hardware edit
controller interface with jog/shuttle for each deck, Programmable
DVE effects. And an upgrade path to the DPR a non linear editor
package that works in YUV at 3:1 compression.
I'm sure that coupling with the Alladin and a good switcher the
package will be quite capable for a limited number of decks.
Thanks for the detailed info, as usual! What I am interested in is
an A/B roll system to control two BetaSP decks, LaserDisc, and the
PAR (through GPI). They can all be controlled properly through the
PVE-500 right now, I am just looking for an effects box to run them
all through. The Aladdin looks like it meets all the criteria, I
thought that many of its features and the FAST were redundant.
>> I thought that many of its features and the FAST were redundant.
That they are and I would'nt consider the Alladin except for the FAST version
they are planning to introduce, but for now its still vaporware. Also the FAST
doesn't yet have a GPI which is a PIA for me but they are supposed to have one
after the first of the year.
Sounds like your on the right track with the PVE-500. It does do EDL's so at
least that part is good.
PMFJI,
>>>What do you think about Razor PRO? I got the tech brief via fax and it
looks exciting.<<<
I have to call those guys, I want to know how useful the Pro version is with
the PAR. Sounds like a NLE, don't know how well it works though.
>> I have to call those guys, I want to know how useful the Pro
version is with the PAR. Sounds like a NLE, don't know how well it
works though. <<
Razor Pro, is now supporting the PAR directly. The "sound" part of
the deal is still a bit sketchy … but the video editing works with
the PAR file format without conversion. The last I heard, you can
play/record directly from within Razor Pro as well.
Jamie (In:sync Pres.) should be comming over today .. I'll get an
update.
>Jamie (In:sync Pres.) should be comming over today .. I'll get an update.<
Did you get to see PRO today? If so, I'd like to hear your comments.
I've talked with Jamie a few times now, and it's directly hooked w/
the PAR. No .tga stuff.. It even needs a new chip on the PAR to do
realtime video scrubbing in the preview Window.. Does it work like
it sounds?
Angelo, I have the FAX preview of ther Razor Pro here. With regard
to adding a chip to the PAR, how does DPS feel or support this? What
about PAR warrantees? This has to be a consideration for me as the
PAR right now is integral to my weekly livelihood and I would not
want to fall victim to the old finger pointing computer
hardware/software game. Right now my PAR is working arround the
clock flawlessly.
>> With regard to adding a chip to the PAR, how does DPS feel or
support this? What about PAR warrantees? <<
The chip is from DPS .. In:sync will be the distributor to dealers as
it looks now. I havn't talked with Brad Nogar regarding the
warrentee (actually didn't think about it … good point). Who ever
gets the info first .. give a yell.
Ang:
Hi there! Long time no write!
>> Who ever gets the info first .. give a yell.
I installed the chip in my own PAR, pretty easy, no problems, works
fine. The chip is actually from DPS, InSync is distributing it for
the present because Razor-Pro is the only software which supports it
as of now.
>Angelo, I have the FAX preview..
I'm not Angelo, but to answer your question- the chip's from DPS. So there
won't be a problem. You'll just need a basic chip puller.
I agree, our PAR's been rock solid.
JNJ
>> Did you get to see PRO today? If so, I'd like to hear your
comments. <<
Yes … I like what they are doing very much. Actually, I've seen
the product quite often during it's "growing-up" (their office is
about 15 miles away). Their size is allowing them to be very
responsive in optimizing the software.
It has quite a few features which are fundumentally different and
better than Premier (and which Premier would require a complete
re-write to implement). The 1st and most important feature is that
Razor has infinite video and audio tracks .. and unlike Premier,
there are no dedicated tracks for effects and/or filters. It works
much like VP in 3DS where you can mix and match content tracts with
effect tracks. This allows the user to design a "single pass"
computation solution for the final product and allows cascading
effects, transitions and compositing which would be atleast
impractical .. but more likely imposible in Premier.
2nd, the way they wrote the code makes it very easy for them to
quickly add support for other devices and file formats. The PAR is
1st .. the DVM of the Targa2K is next.
The other features of each both Razor and Premier are easily
"copyable" from each other … but with these basic advantages with
Razor and the fact that they can so quickly respond to the market
requirements … Razor has the "edge" …. get it … Razor … edge
. <GD&R>
>> and it's directly hooked w/ the PAR. No .tga stuff..<<
Yes .. it now directly supports the .ani PAR file .. but it still has
a great *.TGA handler which is still very handy.
>> new chip on the PAR to do realtime video scrubbing in the preview
Window.. Does it work like it sounds?<<
Yes, the scrub chip is pretty nice … but its not like the realtime
. full screen preview you get from the Targa2k. That system will have
a component-out board by the end of the year and will really make
things confusing.
How does Razor Pro do transitions with the PAR as a single video
output. Say I wanted to do a page curl from one video to another.
Could RP do this with the PAR?
PMJI-
>How does Razor Pro do transitions with the PAR as a single video output. Say
I wanted to do a page curl from one video to another. Could RP do this with the
PAR?<
I'm not sure if there's a page turn w/ PRO, but having multiple layers
of video is possible, all in the same image- using Alpha channel,
keying, or some of the transition effects. ( <-I'm assuming there)
They're all "compiled" or "rendered" and saved all together in one
pass.
I too love the infinate tracks.. it's great. I've been able to toy
with some really wild layered effects with Razor. (w/avi's)
Unfortunately, some of my Photoshop filters (Kai PT1) don't work
right with it. Mabe that's been resolved w/ PRO. In-Sync seems to
be on top of things there. It'll do wonders for PAR sales, I'm
sure. Especially if they get sound working well.
>just want an excuse to comment?
I do.
A friend of mine has one here and it's nothing short of amazing, for
the price. I think he has just over $15k into it.
He likes it because of the number of input/output devices and
channels. BTW, it also came with Topas<BG>. Geez, seems like we just
passed in the halls and/or restaurants of Atlanta. Thanks for the
case of Corona<G>
Yes, everything I've heard about Aladdin's Pinnacle has been
excellent, and it appears that it will fit in very well here. Maybe
a Christmas present?
>> Thanks for the case of Corona
You looked like you needed and deserved it! Great job pulling
together the MM stuff for AU, it worked!
Thanks for your help, Greg.
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Pardon the 'twisting of this thread' for a moment but I wonder
if someone could offer a word or two of wisdom….
I am trying to use an animation stored on the PAR in Video
Post. I am attempting what I thought should be a very simple
procedure, using an .ANI file composited over a still TGA but with
little success. It just continues to write the first frame of the
.ANI file over and over.. I set DSPPAR_i.PXP to TARGA, FRAME,
INCREMENT, but no go.. Any advice..??
You have to use an IFL file to read the animation from tape
>> I set DSPPAR_i.PXP to TARGA, FRAME, INCREMENT, but no go.. Any advice..??
<<
Wrong! You'll need to set DSPPAR_i.PXP to TARGA, FRAME, FILENAME, and
use an .ifl for the background or video post entry. Works great.
You'll need to use the utility makeifl.exe which comes with 3ds3+ to
make an .ifl of the frames you need.
>>Wrong! You'll need to set DSPPAR_i.PXP to TARGA, FRAME, FILENAME,
and use an .ifl for the background or video post entry. Works great.
You'll need to use the utility makeifl.exe which comes with 3ds3+ to
make an .ifl of the frames you need.
I never had problem with background or video post. But when I wanted
to use it in material editor, it just use first frame of animation.
Could you tell me how can I fix this? BTW, I never used .ifl for
background or video post. I use just TARGA, FRAME, INCREMENT and
works fine.
it's the same for a material as for background and video post. No
difference. You still need to do what I said:
TARGA, FRAME, FILENAME, and use an .ifl
Hansoo:
>> I never had problem with background or video post.
You should have! <bg> "Increment" with 3DS on the PAR brings in ever other
frame. An IFL is the only way to bring in every frame.
Greg Pyros
PS – Listen to MartinF, he's right once in a while! <g,r,& d>
Brendan:
You gotta use an IFL. You gotta get the images by FILENAME not increment.
Bob
Brendan
There you have the answer from a panel of experts! How's that for service.
Good luck
TedB
!^NavFont01F0007MGHHG51A2B1
Gentlemen,
I thank you kindly for your 'Most Excellent' & timely advice. If I had
you all in the same room , I'd buy you all a 'Tall Cool One….' So I guess
you'll have to settle for a "Virtual Beer" for now….
This Samuel Adams is for you guys !….. : )
Brendan G.