#Flyers around?
13 messages in this thread
Once again we have reached another supposed ship date for the Flyer demo units
to go out to dealers (OCT 29th). Anyone seen one yet?
Gary
Gary,
Still calling, still waiting.
Michael
Several Flyers actually did ship last Friday to some dealers who were putting
on shows. I understand some more will ship this week (about 10 or so) and a lot
more next week.
The dealers who got the Flyers were Heifner in Missouri and Armatos in New
York.
Jim Plant
Gary.
Last Wednesday I visited our area SBE (Society of Broadcast Engineers) show
here near Pittsburgh.
Yes, one of the booths did have a Flyer…. and I did see a demo. Also, when
the person was "distracted"… was able to lay my big fingers on the keyboard,
eventually messing up the demo.
They used two inputs. One from a live on-site camera, and the other feed came
from tape. It was interesting building up a sequence on the monitor screen…
pressing a key and seeing it all happen.
The quality of picture seemed very good…. and I was quite surprised.
NewTek's video compression does seem to work. There is some pixelation during
the EFX, but you have to look for it. They did not try with any audio…. just
the PIX.
My present viewpoint. For the bucks seems a reasonable buy… but don't
compare it side by side with the $50,000 type of setup of non-linerar. You get
what you pay for.
Hilary.
Hilary,
Forgive me my friend for what I am about to do, but methinks your observations
on the Flyer were a bit tainted by the fact that what you were observing at the
show was NOT the shipping version of the software. Besides that particular fact
you leave out something very important with regard to the pixelization
artifact; the Flyer uses the Toaster for transitions the same way anyone would
use their video sources with the Toaster's switcher. The Toaster's pixelization
on some transitions is going to be a limiting factor for ANY video pumped thru
the Toaster, this isn't the fault of the Flyer. In fact Flyer's video quality
(before pumped thru a Toasterboard) is probably far better (or at least equal
to) any NLE system costing upwards of 50k. In this instance, the phrase "you
get what you pay for" only applies to the Toaster's switcher, not the Flyer.
With the Flyer it would seem that you get a lot more than you pay for with
respect to the quality of the video compression, and I think that is the
primary concern of most of the people monitoring this thread. For anyone who
has looked seriously into NLE systems, the switcher portion of the package is
usually NOT included, most NLE's expect that you will be doing straight cuts
for off line work. Any effects such as DVE moves or dissolves will normally be
handled in the same way as single frame recording, where the effects are
"renderred" at some great expense of your time.
Frank
Frank,
PMFJI.
>>most NLE's expect that you will be doing straight cuts for off line work. Any
effects such as DVE moves or dissolves will normally be handled in the same way
as single frame recording, where the effects are "renderred" at some great
expense of your time.>>
I thought that the selling point of the high priced NLE is that you can do on
line work with effects.
Everything else you said is correct, but I thought equipment like AVID and
others let you do dissolves in real time. I'm suppose to be getting an AVID
system in a couple of weeks to review for a magazine, so I'll know for sure,
but I thought when I saw a demo two years ago, the effects were done on the
fly. It's been a while and at the time I was really learning what NLE was
rather than try and compare against current systems.
Fred
I just finished an afternoon of editing on a near-top-end AVID system.
Currently, it supports real-time dissolves. With the next revision,
expected mid-Dec, it's supposed to offer a much wider range of real-time
effects. (Who knows how much this add-on will cost, though?)
The AVID is really cool, but the artifacting was about the same as my PAR
– and it cost alot more! The flip side is that it also digitizes audio,
and does NLE. It seems to do the job quite well. I just hate waiting 10
minutes for a simple luminance key A-B transition.
Keep On Toastin'
Erik Flom – ELF Works 3D Construction Co.
Erik,
The real time dissolves is what I thought.
Boy, I am really envious of you and anybody else who is working for a
production company that can afford this kind of equipment.
Only being able to buy what I have made on previous jobs keeps me at about
$100,000 under what I want. In other words, my wish list runs about $100,000
per year of which I end up getting around $30,000.
If the improvements would just stop for a few years, maybe I could catch up.
Fred
Fred,
There are several different versions of the AVID system. Hard to say whether
the one you are getting is designed for on line work (see Erik Flom's post).
Several companies are beginning to see that NLE is most desireable for on line
and are adjusting there products accordingly. Reducing prices on systems for
off line, upping the quality settings (reducing the available compression
capabilities) in the light of recent tumbling prices on large capacity hard
drives.
Let me know how things go on your review. As far as I can tell, the Flyer
represents the best cost/quality ratio of anything I have seen or heard of as
of yet.
Frank
Frank,
<<<As far as I can tell, the Flyer represents the best cost/quality ratio of
anything I have seen or heard of as of yet.<<<
I am guessing the same. Which is the reason I ordered mine back in June. I
think what is going to happen is that the Flyer and the Avid are going to both
arrive at the same time. A great chance to compare.
Although, for my review, I am only going to be talking about the Avid.
I'll let you know what I find.
Fred
Glad to hear that distant rumble from you Frank.
One thing I did forget to mention in my fiddle with the Flyer at the show.
They used a high end Conrac monitor for "Program". I was with the CBS local
affiliate chief engineer at the time. He did point out to me how "noisy" the
picture became during the transitions… and yes, when watching carefully it
was there.
I have no idea which version of the Flyer was demonstrated… it may have been
a bench prototype. Most certainly the bloke who demonstrated it did not seem
to know much about it…. and had problems in showing it off. In the SBE show
which is mostly engineering types, it did not fare too well in comments. Some
justified I think, and some to defend their purchase of $100,000 products.
All in all… I will wait for a while. Maybe when all the bugs have been found
and exterminated, I will still have my options open.
All the best, Hilary
Hilary,
I agree that the first cut of just about any software is bound to have a
gremlin or two, but lets not forget that the Flyer has actually been in active
development for over three years now, so I would expect the shipping product to
be quite robust, but perhaps missing a few of the more desireable features that
will undoubtedly be pointed out by the first wave of "in the trenches" users.
Quite frankly I can hardly wait to get mine installed and paying it's own way.
However, I am not going to give up on my tape based suite until I am totally
convinced that the time is right. I would expect that time to be near the
second release of the prodcut.
Frank
Frank. As a somewhat ancient (75 yrs.) engineer I have formed some conclusions
about the art of a purchase. Especially if the product is somewhat new.
The purchaser of a new system will NEVER admit that his purchase had not quite
come up to expectations. He will defend the purchase to the death, otherwise
it would reflect upon his/her technical and financial wisdom in making the
purchase… plus reduce the envy of those around him/her. He becomes the
product's "Ad' Agency".
Those interested in the new system – who cannot presently afford the purchase –
will pull out a lot of stops to provide to all and sundry, who will listen or
read, with lots of real and un-real reasons (not financial) that he/she has not
got one on order. These can range from the stability of the supplier… all the
way to the fact that the tantalum in the capacitors came from a flooded mine
somewhere near the Artic.
Magazine so-called tech' reviews tend to be based upon whether the new gadget's
company advertise in that publication or not… or if there is a chance that
they may do so in the forseeable future.
I have been in all these categories. Thus my family thrive on dog food for
Sunday lunch.
All the best, Hilary