CompuServe Thread

#3D object of a brain?

26 messages in this thread
#132240From: David GouldOct 30, 1994 9:08 PM
I am searching for a 3D object of a brain preferably in the .3DS ou .PRJ format, but .DXF is also OK. If you know where I could obtain such an object I would appreciate your replies. Thanks in advance
#132254From: Jeremy Hubbell [Adesk]Oct 30, 1994 9:50 PM
If you're willing to pay for one, I know Viewpoint Datalabs has an excellent model of a brain. I don't have the number handy(at home right now), but maybe someone else might have the number? Jeremy
#132474From: Tim c BrananOct 31, 1994 7:04 PM
Call Vibrant at 1-800-DATASET
#132609From: Jeremy Hubbell [Adesk]Nov 1, 1994 9:45 AM
Duh, I should have know that! Jh
#132650From: Tim c BrananNov 1, 1994 11:44 AM
Hey, the only reason I remeber is because the CD is sitting on the shelf next to my computer.
#132729From: David GouldNov 1, 1994 6:06 PM
<<Hey, the only reason I remeber is because the CD is sitting on the shelf next to my computer.>> What is the model of the brain like and how much is it going to cost me?
#132750From: Tim c BrananNov 1, 1994 8:15 PM
I don't know how much it will cost you, but $500 would probably be a fair guess. It looks pretty good. I have been trying on and off to make a good brain mesh, but it has eluded me so far. Then again, Viewpoint is apperantly trying some new purchase policy that may help, but I don't have the details.
#133016From: david W. mennenohNov 2, 1994 11:15 PM
>>I have been trying on and off to make a good brain >>mesh, but it has eluded me so far. I was just thinking, could you maybe make a brain shaped object and then displace it using a map with some wavy lines in it. Based on Glen's "Yoda" guy I'd say you could probably get a pretty good looking brain this way. Justa thought..
#133182From: Tim c BrananNov 3, 1994 1:46 PM
That was my next idea. I scanned in some pictures of left, right, and top of a brain (I have a couple of rather graphic autopsy books) and made bump maps out of them, and I thought of using them in displace, but have not had the time yet to actually try it.
#133245From: Nov 3, 1994 6:39 PM
I have tried doing that, ie using displace for brain mapping, but ran into a number of problems. However, I have developed some close approximations of many levels of the brain which I may be able to assist you in rendering. The first question is what view, section, and areas are you trying to represent? Are you trying to view the whole brain? the coronal sections, axial sections etc, etc ,etc. Anyway give me a better idea. Sam Medical Media
#133264From: Tim c BrananNov 3, 1994 8:01 PM
Actually, I never had any specific part in mind. I just wanted a brain mesh cause I thought it would inspire me to do weird, but interesting animations to amuse myself with. I have dabbled in 3D make-up (prosthetics, rubber monsters, that sort of thing) for years and found that a few spare body parts around the house came in handy once in a while.
#133277From: Nov 3, 1994 8:53 PM
Well, if you have any specifics about it you can get very accurate results depending on the area in what you are looking at. What I found to work better in regrads to looking at a hemisphere section of the brain, is to use planar bump mapping as opposed to displace. I say this because it is easier to get a more accurate representation of the region that separates the parietal lobe from the temporal and frontal lobes. But once again if you can be more specific I, HOPEFULLY, can direct you to the most appropriate resources to develop what you are looking for. Sam
#133775From: Gayle G de N, SAVANTESNov 5, 1994 6:59 PM
Hi Sam – PMJI – Do you happen to have a good hippocampus, typical sagittal view? I've got Viewpoint's model, which is quite good, but lacks most internal structure. Also, have you had any luck, or have you tried making a texture/bump map for the superficial vasculature? BTW, I enjoyed your thread on IK for the skeleton.
#133821From: Nov 6, 1994 12:28 AM
Doing the hippocampus in isolation is a tough one because it is contiguous with the medial edge of the temporal lobe and is distinguished mainly on a histological basis. However, if you give me a good description of what you are trying to show I am sure we can work something out. In terms of doing a representitive view it may be easier to do a coronal section. Let me know, I will be playing around this weekend anyway with some more spinal cord stuff. Sam
#133496From: M. G. BATCHELORNov 4, 1994 3:00 PM
PMJI, but in reference to constructing a brain (or other 3D detailed objects) using Displace.pxp…..here's a technique I used months ago for a baby doll model. It's sort of a "poor man's 3D digitizer", and I've meant to write about it here before, but never did. Anyway, usually detailed * photographs * used lighting which was at some angle wrt the view, so using them for bump maps isn't always ideal. This is a little bit of work, but try this if you can obtain a real-world model of a brain: 1) Take the subject object to be scanned and paint it flat white. There are various types of paint which will come off later pretty well if necessary. 2) Using any sort of scheme for registration, place the brain (or most any object) on the bed of a common 24-bit scanner. Using the registration scheme, carefully scan front, sides, top & bottom views at pretty high resolution in greyscale. 3) In a good paint/processing program, crop each image tightly, convert to 24-bit RGB format, process for brightness & contrast, filter if necessary, and fill in the background to make sure it's consistently black. 4) Then, scale & distort the views as necessary for spherical mapping, & combine & blend them into one large displacement map. Touch-up as necessary. 5) Then apply as a spherical map in Displace.pxp & adjust surface detail height as necessary. Obviously, making the map is a lot of work and can never be perfect. But since the object is lit by the scanner face-on, it produces a correct bump or displacement map. You might also try using the undistorted/unscaled 6 views colored/shaded in a paint program, and box-mapped onto a simple "brain object" which initially is more angular. Then deform it more to a rounded shape after the mapping is applied. The above scanner digitizing technique of course can be used more easily & successfully with a more hemispherical object, like a ceramic mask or whatever. Unfortunately, every color scanner I've used will create all sorts of color fringing if in color mode & if the subject is not very flat artwork. Otherwise, a second color pass will allow simulation of a "poor man's Cyberware Scanner" <g>. However, with a little more work and the required equipment, you can: 1) Photograph the subject in color with very diffuse/indirect light to avoid specular highlights & other reflections. 2) Compose and print for a 1:1 scale print. 3) Use any registration scheme, scan the greyscale displacement map, then scan the photograph. Using a paint program like Painter X/2 with a translucent overlay layer, adjust the color scan as close to possible to the greyscale scan, & touch-up as necessary. 4) Displace with the greyscale map & apply mapping from Displace.pxp. This can be a LOT of work, has to be precise, and is rarely perfect. But I did have pretty good results 'way back when I was foolin' around with this.
#133541From: Tim c BrananNov 4, 1994 4:46 PM
I've pondered aspects of you discuss, but certainly not in the detail you have! As far as the brain goes, I have been working towards a similar type of thing. This has been off and on in my spare time as sort of a proof of concept type of thing, just to see if it can be done. I have several anatomy/autopsy books, with good side, top and bottom views of the brain. I scanned them in, converted to 8-bit greyscale, and then tediously modified them to be more of a bump map than just an image of a brain. At the time, I was just going to use them as bump maps, but I couldn't get a decent brain shaped mesh to start with, so I dropped it to ponder it more at my leisure. Later, after I got displace, the idea occured to me that I could try it there, with some modifications, and possibly come up with a decent brain. Not perfect, but good enough for my purposes. I have not done this yet as I have had more importants things to figure out, but I will get back to it eventually. Your suggestions certainly help. Thanks.
#133621From: M. G. BATCHELORNov 4, 1994 10:12 PM
You bet. Good luck with it. BILL
#133433From: Casey Johnson[Viewpoint]Nov 4, 1994 12:28 PM
We have a brain with interior in high resolution for $349. This includes grouping info for the exterior and interior of the brain. Not a bad price for what you would need to do to model one. PS. For some unknown reason, we don't have you in our database and I would be more than happy to get a catalog and free cd out to you. Send me you address and phone #'s and I will get some info out to you.
#133776From: Gayle G de N, SAVANTESNov 5, 1994 6:59 PM
We bought a high-res brain from you about a year ago – are you talking about a different brain, now? Can we upgrade, because the one we have just has cortices, cerebellum, a single-piece brainstem, and corpus callosum… we need more detail. We're in your database.
#134394From: SyndesisNov 8, 1994 2:29 PM
Ooow, mesh "upgrades"? Does Viewpoint have a policy about that?
#134613From: Gayle G de N, SAVANTESNov 9, 1994 10:13 AM
(Was that pronounced "ow", or "ooooh"?) We bought their "R" brain mesh (R stands for "ridiculously-high" vertex/poly count, according to one of their anatomical modellers), for $400 bucks, last year. I just talked to Viewpoint, and that's the same mesh that Casey was talking about … which is not really very detailed in the interior. RE: mesh "upgrades" – Casey said Viewpoint is working out an upgrade policy "even as we speak". Stay tuned.
#134666From: SyndesisNov 9, 1994 12:19 PM
I meant "hhmmm", as in, "that's a toughy." I'd never thought of the ramifications of upgrades for meshes. So far, I'd guess it's been a "fire and forget" world for selling meshes.
#134764From: Nov 9, 1994 7:31 PM
Gayle, what exactly are you looking for in detail of the brain mesh? I can certainly be able to provide you with a high resolution mesh model. Have you taken a look at the mesh of the cervical vertebrae I uploaded, its called c2vert.dxf? As you know the brain can be sectioned in a number of ways and unfortunetely if you section it one way you have to use a different model to section it another way. Also, what did you think of the quick rendering of the brain I uploaded, it would not take me much time to put together a brain with interior structures using mapping as opposed to actually scanning it in. Let me know Sam 206-754-4377
#134784From: alec jasonNov 9, 1994 8:53 PM
Did you ever get the email I sent you about the availability of your skeleton models I send a few weeks ago? I never got a response. Alec Jason
#134929From: John K. JordanNov 10, 1994 12:23 PM
Speaking of brains, did you happen to catch the animation on the TODAY show this morning? An MD was talking about headaches to Miss Katie and the illustration was a nice animation of some appropriate brain guts from the inside, as if the interior were transparant.
#135146From: Gayle G de N, SAVANTESNov 11, 1994 9:20 AM
Sam – I really liked the brain you uploaded – in terms of a quickie solution it was amazing. <<using mapping instead of scanning>> .. technique as in the one you uploaded? We have Viewpoints "brain with internal structure" – for what we are doing at the moment, which is shots from a distance through transparent cortices, showing (VERY) crude pathways (this is for highschool level) for learning, memory, reward etc, I can pretty much fake whatever is needed on the interior. Have you seen that mesh? Do you have their catalog? If you were to do a high-res brain, (modelled, not mapped), any thoughts on what you might charge? We may have a need for a closer look for some stills illustrations for other purposes. For pathways, we'd nearly always be using saggital or parasaggital views. Gayle G de N