#MIRAGE FX
23 messages in this thread
To anyone out there messing around with (or, gulp, .. working with)
MIRAGE and coming up with cool effects…… lets get together and
share them. I'd like to put them in 3D/XP (IPAS Newsletter)
So David,
You're collecting all this good stuff. Where's the first
issue? You gonna ask the Sysop for your own category? or did you get
one already. You havn't replied to my reply, so can I assume you do
not want me to write about Animation Master? Do you have a secretary
to keep track of follow ups? How many articles are you going to put
in each time, or is it just going to be one giant continuous stream
of stuff about IPAS?
What's your background…have you ever published before? Have
you uploaded any graphics you have done? Will you be trying to
publish the stuff we write in a collection for later re-reading…it
would be a shame to loose all this valuable insight, without
preserving it by subject that we would have access to in the future.
There are some very bright and able people herein, and I don't want
see their knowledge popped on the net for a week, and then gone. How
'bout a reply, Mr. Publisher?
Sanford…
Sorry I didn't get back to you right away. My "regular job" is as
audio visual mgr. for the Miami Beach Convention Center. We are
just wraping up the International Assoc. of Amusement Parks and
Attractions convention, I did over 110 hours this week and pretty
close to that last week so I've been kinda out of touch. I wish I
didn't have to do this newsletter around ay "work" but, for now ,
ther is no way around it. (I'm not always this busy). As far as
"collecting all this good stuff" goes, I've yet to recieve anything
from anybody (people say that they're working on it though), I wish I
had a secretary, maybe sometime soon I'll have to find one, if I ever
start getting "A continuous stream of IPAS stuff" My background…..
As a kid (I'm now 33) all I wanted to do was be a film director, (like
Stanley Kubrick). My first job was as an asst. animator at a public
TV station, Doing Claymation type stuff. From there I started working
on feature films and commercials doing whatever work I could get. I
started as a production asst. and went to special effects, (I love
blowing thigs up 🙂 ) I also started doing film sound which landed me
a job in a recording studio where I met some musicians. Soon I too
became a musician (in addition to a recording engr.) I was involved
in over 10 "Fanzines" mostly about new music / punkrock /avant garde
art and a few other things (this is my publishing experience), I
haven't uploaded anything yet But I know I should, so I will soon. I
definitetly want to put all the info in a collection of some kind.
(CD-ROM?) I want this newsletter to be a true group project; all of
us trading info and helping one another broaden our 3D horizons. I
know that the ASOFT forum is doing that already but the newsletter
format will probably be a better way for the information NOT TO GET
LOST. I would like to hear your thoughts on anything I've said here
Once again, please forgive me for not getting bactk to you in a timely
manner, I'm truly sorry, you deserve better.
See ya' soon (I Hope 😉 )
-David (aka Mr. Publisher)
PS. As far a length of article goes, since this is an "electronic"
newsletter, length is not as important as it would be if it were for
a hard copy magazine. If it is VERY long then i may , with the
permission of the author, split it up into two or more parts. right
now the format isn't totally fixed, I'll see what gets sent in before
I decide on how to put it together (I have some ideas ) I would still
very much like to print an Animation Master article by you, I hope
you're still considering it.
David,
Well, thankyou. Your background and intentions are in the
right place. I would be happy to write something on Animation
Master, and as you can guess, I don't want to write a throwaway
article. You must also face the issue of copywriting the
articles…put in a notice of copywrite…so that some other magazine
or person doesn't download and re-publish the articles.
Do you know that placing articles here puts them into the
public domain? Those articles are then available to anyone to
re-publish for profit. I don't feel like finding my article is some
thief's book. Know what I mean?
Sanford…. Thank you too I didn't know that placing things on the
forum put them in public domain. I guess that anything that is
intended for publication in 3d/xp should be sent sent via mail and
that unless "otherwise noted the articles should be copyright the
original author"or something to that effect. I haven't published
anything in over three years, so thanks for reminding me to refresh
my memory on the the current copyright situation. Maybe we could
publish a hard copy book at the end of each year with the best
articles from the preceding year's issues? Greg Pyros recomended that
I make the newsletter a non-profit org. but I'm not so sure…
( Lots of paperwork that BETTER be right, ya'know) I don't expect to
get rich off of this but if there is any profit maybe anyone who
contributes could get some kind of share, the only lawyer that I knew
died last year so I suppose that I'd better find a new one to talk to
about the money situation. Thanks for getting me to think of other
aspects of this project, sometimes I get sooooooo wraped up in 3D
Studio that I forget that there's a whole world out there <G> Anyway
thanks again Keep in touch… -David
Keep moving forward.
Regards, Sanford
Thanks Sanford
I'm trying
-David
PS. John Foust of Syndesis seems to disagree with you about forum messages
being in the public domain, E-Mailing articles would still seem to be the
right way to do it (for copyright reasons) so I guess it doesn't really matter
either way… just thought you should know…….
David,
Copywrite law states that if no copywrite symbol and date with the
author's name appear with the text, that you loose copywrite protection. The
only possible copywrite that could be claimed is by Compuserve, because the
individual contributors to the forum do not include the word "Copywrite" and
the date in the text. The only date is placed there by Compuserve. So do they
own the copywrite to our material?
Maybe John F. knows.
Sanford
>> Copywrite law states that if no copywrite symbol and date with the
>>author's name appear with the text, that you loose copywrite protection.
Sanford:
I don't think that is the case. If I remember rightly, as of '80-something
(83? 89?) some court ruled that no actual symbol was needed, that there is a
copyright inherent in the act of creation. It's true that you can get more
protection (and money) from actually having it stated, and even more again by
going to the trouble of registering the copyright.
I'll dig thru my desk here, as I know I have an article or two on the subject.
(They may be hard to find though, as I'm in the process of re-organizing my
desk <shudder>).
Dave
Dave,
I'm not sure how you would protect anything if you don't put a date,
your name and the word "copyright." That is what the Library of Congress asks
you to do when you submit form-E, or other forms for written material. I did
that on three years of magazines I published from 1988 to 1991. They even
require you have a "masthead" where you state ownership and your legal address
be printed in every issue. Maybe it is different for each category of creation.
You also have to put the notice on a CD. Every one I have carrys the "c" symbol
and the name of the owner.
But there is always the exception.
Sanford
Very generally speaking, Sanford, my lawyer tells me that, whether you
include a Copyright statement/date or not, if you can prove YOU
originally published/created/distributed/etc. a certain piece of
text, music, art or what have you, you reserve the Right to
Subsequent Copies, or, it's Copyright.
Certainly, the more documentation that exists with said pieces
concerning it's origin (Copyright statements, federal forms, your
picture on the cover<g>, etc) the easier it's gonna be to prove this,
and (perhaps) the more unlikely someone will try to steal it's use.
This (I believe) is why CIS lists it's rules concerning copyrights so
stringently.
We had a copyright-expert lawyer help us with a band name problem
once. We had to prove we used it as a band name in public first,
generally speaking, which gave us the right to keep using it.
No, you've got that wrong. You are not required to use the copyright symbol
and date. It's recommended, of course, especially if you plan to defend it in
court, but it's not necessary. The law starts from the simple premise that
someone has controls over their creations unless they explicitly hand them to
someone else.
John:
/__________From your message___________\\
The law starts from the simple premise that someone has controls over their
creations unless they explicitly hand them to someone else.
__________________________________________
For the snapshot of the Chinalake site you sell, how did you get through the
nightmare of getting all of the explicit permissions? Do you have to send the
creators royalties? Not knowing much about the internet, would it cost me more
to download all of the meshes myself or buy the CD? When is your Windows
Interchange coming out? If a hen and a half could lay an egg and a half in a
day and a half…
Bob
I don't think there's any way to find solid ground when it comes to legal
rights on the Internet. We relied on the permissions and organizational skills
of the administrator of the Avalon site, who performed his own checks on the
distributable-ness of the data there. Buying a CD for $50 is most certainly
cheaper than downloading, by any measure… that's why there's a booming
business in CDs based on Internet sites. A quick glance at the list of discs
published by Wlanut Creek shows about half are based on Internet archives.
(TW, I'm suffering from transposed letters even since I switched to WinNT 3.5.
I think their keyboard driver is screwed up. That's "Walnut Creek" up there.)
What? Did someone claim that posting messages to Compuserve makes them "public
domain"? Nope. Arguably, the contents of the message remain "copyright" the
author of the message, who gave permission to CompuServe to re-publish their
work in this public forum. CompuServe has a "collection copyright" on the
organization of the messages here, similar to the copyright held by a book
publisher who publishes an anthology of poems by various authors. So, it's not
legal for people to collect the message threads here and re-post to BBSes for
example. (And I've seen that done.) You could reprint the message if you got
permission from the author.
You are much safer to exploit the hints and tips here… read the ideas,
express them in your own words, and you'll own your explanation. And then you
can publish a 3DS hints-and-tips book built on the shoulders of others. 🙂
If Sanfords kennedy's statement about "public Domain" was in in error then I
regret any confusion my message may have caused, I'll ask him about where he
got that information. I'm sure his heart was in the right place 🙂
If what you say is true (and I'm sure it is <g>) then E-Mailing articles is
still the way to go, and I may be "safer" doing my own tips and tricks book
but (at least for the moment ) exploitation is not my game.
BTW glad to meet you….
-David
John,
Copywrite protection from a publisher does you little good if the
messages are not permanently saved. Does Compuserve save all mail and uploads
permaneantl6y? Where is the archive of all messages? I realize that many
threads are kept, but isn't that up to the discression of the Sysop?
Sanford
It doesn't matter if CompuServe keeps copies of all messages. Similarly,
newspapers aren't required to keep back issues, either. Obviously, if you make
your own "backup copy" and then start redistributing it, either as a printed
newsletter or a ZIP file on a BBS, you're violating CompuServe's rights to the
collection of messages posted here.
John,
Do you know the mechanism whereby anyone might re-secure rights to an
uploaded file? I have uploaded some pictures and a mesh file. I have every
intention of showing them elsewhere. I guess I had better find out whether
Compuserve has ever enforced its right of copywrite ownership of uploaded
materials. Since they did not pay for them, I wonder. Or is the waiver of the
upload time charges considered payment?
I think this will become an issue if anyone tries to
enter the market with something uploaded here or on the
Internet. Do you know who owns Internet uploaded materials?
Is it the service node location, or who?
Regards, Sanford
something to consider….
Anyone who uploads a program that they've copyrighted, retains the copyright to
their own work. If a copyright message is put on all uploads then I would
presume that the author retains the copyright. What about E-Mail? If a
copyright notice is put on an E-Mail message then the author should be able to
keep the copyright. If this is so, then anything sent via E-Mail for
publication to the publisher should retain it's original copyright no matter
what online service is used for that mail. I still am not sure about forum
messages / images etc.. If I were to upload on of my animations would it be OK
to make the first frame a copyright notice? What about making a self extracting
program that included two files, one would be the image the other would be an
ascii file with a copyright notice?
There must be an optimum way to go about this.
Just thinking out loud …..
-David
David,
The main Compuserve sysop address is 70006,101, according to a friend
of mine. Why don't you pose the question? They've been reading our mail already
anyway.
regards, Sanford
Of course CompuServe has successfully enforced their collection copyright!
There's been many cases where BBS operators have grabbed file collections and
file descriptions from CompuServe libraries. CompuServe doesn't claim to own
the files, they own the library or message base organization and the
descriptions here. If the owner puts the file elsewhere, then the claims of
that "elsewhere" take effect. The Internet is a morass at this point. II've
never heard of an 'ftp' site making the same claims that CompuServe does, for
example. I think you need to check out the Legal Forum, or at least a book on
software copyrights. You've made several common errors so far, and if you've
getting into the newsletter business, you should acquaint yourself with the
rules of the road unless you like talking with lawyers. 🙂
John,
Regarding "several common errors"…I am here to learn. I am not doing
the Newsletter, David Camp is. But, if I wish to participate in his project I
want to know what will happen to the things I write, expecially since I may
want to use the text or the concepts again in my own book.
I know you publish CD's and obviously have been down this road before
myself and many others.
My contribution is to explore and ask, and do some good animation, plus
an article or two. Thanks for your info.
Regards, Sanford