#marketing OS/2
38 messages in this thread
"I've seen pictures of the Win '95 GUI and it looks more and more like the
MacOS Ver. 7.5."
John, I had something of the same thought, but in reverse order: System 7.5
looked a like the mid-stream Win95 betas!
I don't care all that much about how the screen looks – what I'm after is the
ability to extend the usefulness of my investment by being able to
pre-emptively multitask.
Our machine count keeps growing higher only because most of our machines
(Macintoshes) can't do more than one thing at a time . . . and in a busy shop,
that's an expensive luxury.
Jerry
I find you faith that Win97 will multitask preemptively as well as the Amiga or
OS/2 touching.
Paul (aka Mr. Zombie)
"I find you faith that Win97 will multitask preemptively as well as the Amiga
or OS/2 touching."
I don't think I said that Win95 would offer pre-emptive multitasking. The
conversation, if I recall correctly, was about WindowsNT and OS/2, which most
certainly do offer pre-emptive multitasking.
In regard to the Amiga OS, not a one of the applications we use for our
day-to-day work has ever been available for the Amiga, so I fail to see the
significance of your statement.
Jerry
No, I was only using the Amiga as a benchmark of desktop multitasking. OS/2
has in a number of ways surpassed it, though with dramatically higher overhead,
and NT is in a few ways better still, though with yet higher overhead.
As to the other, I was reacting to your statement that System 7.5 looks a lot
like mid-stream Windows2017 betas. I'm not much of a fan of Apple, but I like
Microsoft less. Apple at least deserves credit for what it did. Microsoft has
a lot of good qualities, but innovation isn't one of them. MS lets other
companies field-test features.
Paul (aka Mr. Zombie)
"MS lets other companies field-test features."
Seems every publisher these days lets their customers fieldtest everything.
Personally I've started cutting way back on my software purchases as places
like Egghead have eliminated their return privilege. Too much garbage out there
to take a chance.
"I was reacting to your statement that System 7.5 looks a lot like mid-stream
Windows2017 betas"
The enhancements Apple made to System 7.5 aren't worth a yawn in my opinion.
And it really does look to me as if they're picking stuff from Win95.
Jerry
How can they be picking stuff from Win95? Win95 is picking stuff from Apple
and IBM. Granted, they're all picking stuff from each other and it's getting
pretty incestuous, but MS is the least innovative of the bunch. They'll wait
until some other company goes through the expense and difficulty of bringing a
new feature to market, and then, if the feature is liked, is in demand, they'll
eventually add it to their products and say they've pioneered a new technology
that will change the way people work. It's one of the reasons for their
success, for good or for bad.
At any rate, you're right, 7.5 didn't add much, although I think AppleScript
has potential. But Apple has been in a decline for a while now. Just look at
the PowerMacs – they're faster, but they can't do anything that no other Macs
can.
Paul (aka Mr. Zombie)
"AppleScript has potential"
AppleScript is incredibly powerful – and incredibly difficult to use. Each
application has its own dictionary. Learning how to do something is less fun
than undergoing root canal. Be a cool language if they ever get their act
together. I still chuckle thinking of how proud so many Mac owners were that
they had no need of a batch language . . . until they realized their machines
were essentially braindead when it came to renaming a couple of hundred files.
<G>
"Just look at the PowerMacs – they're faster, but they can't do anything that
no other Macs can."
Truer words were never spoken. The real kick is that so many Mac owners never
realized that their "high powered" Quadras were slower than the slowest 486
machine which sold for half the price.
Oh well, there's one born every minute. <G>
Jerry
Well, at least with the PowerPC Macs are performance competitive. But I fear
that the last few years that Apple has spent with its head up its #$) will be
the death of it. I don't plan to buy any computer in the near future if I can
avoid it. I'll get as much use out of my Amiga as I can, and maybe get an
Emplant, but I want to see where the chips fall.
Paul (aka Mr. Zombie)
"But I fear that the last few years that Apple has spent with its head up its
#$) will be the death of it."
I think you're right. The outside world kind of grew up while Sculley and
company were preoccupied with soaking people people with high prices and
devloping stuff like the Newton. I'm amazed, frankly, to see how so many of my
needs have changed to the point where the PC is a better alternative than the
Mac.
Jerry
Well, don't knock the Newton. Or rather, don't knock its potential and its
possible descendants. Obviously =IT= is less than promised, but I think that
its basic design and software could result in really kick-ass Newtons down the
line.
Otoh, you're absolutely right about price and performance. They should have
liscensced the OS years ago. And they should have kept the Apple OS years
ahead of others, instead of letting things get to the point where it's hard to
point to real, definite, and large advantages to Macs and to things that simply
CANNOT be done on other machines in the same price magnitude.
It's sad, because I don't much like PCs or Microsoft, and Apple is the only
likely large-scale competitor to the PC platform. For now I can do enough on
my Amiga. I just hope it doesn't break irreperable soon.
Paul (aka Mr. Zombie)
"It's sad, because I don't much like PCs or Microsoft, and Apple is the only
likely large-scale competitor to the PC platform. "
I don't like Microsoft or Apple. Doesn't leave much hope for me, does it? <G>
But I use 'em all without caring too much about what I can't change.
Jerry
Jerry,
>AppleScript is incredibly powerful – and incredibly difficult to use. Each
application has its own >dictionary.
Oy! Maybe Apple/IBM will figure out what ARexx for the Amiga could do for
their own operating systems. I'll take that feature any day over some new
fangled GUI.
Regards,
John Chang
"I'll take that feature any day over some new fangled GUI."
Agreed. Gimme power, not sugar coating!
Jerry
Amen, Paul. Microsoft doesn't innovate… They duplicate!
"They duplicate!"
Shouldn't that be "They buyout!"?
:*)
Steve
> …"They buyout!"?
That too!
Paul,
Speaking of overhead, due to the recent earthquake in Japan, the price of RAM
has gone up dramatically. Several of our sources made me aware that the price
may go up another 10% by next month. This is rediculous.
Regards,
John Chang
What!??!#?@$#?? I didn't know that RAM was even made in that area. And
certainly stockpiles must be substantial. I just don't believe it. At least
it won't cause -me- problems – if I get an accelerator for my 3k, I'll make
sure I'll be able to use the 16meg SIMM from my 1200! <G>
Cheerio!
Paul (aka Mr. Zombie)
Jerry,
>>what I'm after is the ability to extend the usefulness of my investment by
being able to pre-emptively multitask.<<
There you go caring about the nuts and bolts again.
Robb
"There you go caring about the nuts and bolts again."
Hehehehehehe . . . sorry, but my definition of nuts and bolts is a bit
grittier than that. <G>
Jerry
Jerry,
In my definition you don't get too much nuttier and boltier than incorporating
pre-emptive multi-tasking in the OS. Look how long it's taking BillCo.
Robb
"In my definition you don't get too much nuttier and boltier than incorporating
pre-emptive multi-tasking in the OS."
Hmmmmmmmmmmm . . . interesting perspective. All I want to do is use it. Of
course, that presupposes knowing how to make it work. Still, I don't consider
that 'nuts and bolts', just a necessary evil.
Jerry
Here I go again tonite. PMFJI but I think the best OS should not be noticed so
you just run your programs. The necessity of a memory manager on DOS/WiNDOWS is
a great bad example of how not to "see" an OS. On the we just run our progs.
OS/2 is trying to do the same. I like it but I still feel isolated from the
computer. Let's see… under Windows you say "print" & your prog. says to
Windows, "print" and windows says to DOS, "print" and DOS tells the computer
"print!" OS/2 seems to have fewer levels than Windows and the AMIGA the fewest
levels of all. I've not used the MAC much but it seems very similar to the
AMIGA but with different controls. Am I making sense tonite? Thanks. Bye. Tom
Hunt
"but I think the best OS should not be noticed so you just run your programs"
Last night while working with a bunch of files on the Macintosh, all I wished
for were an OS and applications that I could command by thought control. <G>
Jerry
Jerry: Re. Thought controlled OS. If done properly then you just think the
question and the computer sends you the answer. Not just invisible OS but
invisible prog. too! <g> Tom
"If done properly then you just think the question and the computer sends you
the answer. Not just invisible OS but invisible prog. too!"
Sounds great to me! I'll take two! <G>
Jerry
Do you know about the amiga-M key combination? And opening an AmigaShell?
Rafa <Motorola Inside> from Berlin.
>…olive oil is the way to go.<
"Do you know about the amiga-M key combination? And opening an AmigaShell?"
Sure. But what does that have to with anything we're talking about? Those are
commands as distinguished from knowing the thousand and some odd modules
available in the Macintosh Toolbox or the dozens of modules in Windows.
Jerry
Jerry,
I agree that when you have time sensitive projects due, you have to work with
the tools at hand.
I still marvel at the flexibility of the Amiga, our software and that universal
tool, ARexx. We've been able to do some amazing things with the combination.
For example, an ITV client of ours had several studies commissioned. One was
based on HyperCard and took 9 months to develop. Another was done using
Macromedia Director and that took 3-5 months. Our combination took only one
month to do and had better performance than the others!
I admit I do like the way the Mac GUI works, although at times it gets
frustrating to work with the GUI ALL the time. I certainly hope that someone
will come up with a directory utility similar to DiskMaster or Directory Opus
for the Mac and PC.
Regards,
John Chang
"I certainly hope that someone will come up with a directory utility similar to
DiskMaster or Directory Opus for the Mac and PC."
Xtree on the PC, Disktop on the Mac do well and there are many others.
I found both DiskMaster and Directory Opus to be unstable.
Jerry
Directory Opus UNSTABLE???
You're kidding!
Rafa <Motorola Inside> from Berlin.
>…olive oil is the way to go.<
"Directory Opus UNSTABLE???
You're kidding!"
No, not in the slightest. Never worked on my machine. Kept crashing.
Jerry
Jerry,
>>I found both DiskMaster and Directory Opus to be unstable.
Really? Dir-Opus, is one of the staples of my machine, never any problems at
all, and I run enforcer and other debugging tools. If Dir-Opus is unstable on
your system, you must have something else in the back ground that is doing
things it shouldn't.
..Steve
Cruising on Autopilot
from beautiful Coastal South Carolina
"If Dir-Opus is unstable on your system, you must have something else in the
back ground that is doing things it shouldn't."
Could very well be, but since everything else works just fine and I really
don't have anything on the Amiga other than Video Toaster stuff, it was just as
easy to get rid of it.
Jerry
Jerry,
Directory Opus is one of the utils that if available for the clones would
make me seriously consider changing platforms. It is that useful! Manuvering
around DOS with the available utilities is downright painful after life with
Opus. This may be like your attempts at installing OS/2, you may want to try
it again later, if you can get it working (for the life of me I don't know what
is wrong that it crashes yolur system (Innovitronics is in the vendors forum))
makes system upkeep and file maintenance pleasurable!
..Steve
Cruising on Autopilot
from beautiful Coastal South Carolina
"Directory Opus is one of the utils that if available for the clones would make
me seriously consider changing platforms. It is that useful! Manuvering around
DOS with the available utilities is downright painful after life with Opus."
On the Macintoshes we use Disktop and on the PC's Xtree – and, yes, I
absolutely agree with you that navigation on any platform without a tool is
painful. That's why I bought Directory Opus and the other one whose name
escapes me at the moment. The latter just didn't impress me and Opus kept
crashing. As I said, all I keep on the Amiga are Toaster related files and I
pretty much know where they are and I don't mind typing command lines. But at
some point, I'll probably give it a try again. Thanks for the tip about the
publisher being online here.
Jerry
Jerry,
"On the Macintoshes we use Disktop…"
I use Disktop on macs and I don't like nearly as much as Directory Opus, but I
prefer AmigUtil for most of my dir chores which I downloaded from this forum
years ago.
Only time I ever crashed DOpus is when using the Configure program, not the
actually dirutil.
I can't figure out why Diktop never released a version which displayed two
devices contents at a time. It really is mediocre.
Christopher
"I can't figure out why Diktop never released a version which displayed two
devices contents at a time. It really is mediocre."
Too each their own, I guess. I've been using it on the Mac since it first
came out and haven't found any of the competitors could do the job better.
I agree with you that it would be very nice if Disktop showed many devices
and just allowed you to drag and drop between them.
Jerry