CompuServe Thread

#24 bit animation player?

15 messages in this thread
#648From: Trevor LowSep 6, 1994 11:52 AM
GreG, You seem to be the guy in the know, so I thought I'd ask your opinion here. I'm buying a new system for home which I intend to use for rendering and animation etc. I use Imagine PC 3.0. Where I have a problem is viewing and getting my animations to tape. I don't want to buy a single frame recorder, and don't really require that kind of quality anyway (I won't be selling my work). Here is the system I looking at: Pentium 90 PCI Fast & Wide SCSI III controller & 1080mb drive ATI 64 bit display card 512k cache 32 mb RAM The vendor claims I can move 20mb/sec continuous data off the hard disk with the SCSI III setup which should be adequate. However, I have no easy way of compressing or playing 24 bit animations as I do with FLC files. Is there a software package out there that lets me compress a string of 24 bit TGA files? I know Visual Circuits sells the Bit Blitzer that does this, but it's $1,500 and VL-Bus only (with a 32bit accellerator). Also, do I need an "AV ready" hard disk such as the Seagate Barricuda? I would prefer to go with the above setup, and use a (relatively) inexpensive scan converter to output to tape. Thanks in advance for any input, it's really appreciated. Trevor Low, Vancouver, BC
#656From: GreG tsadilasSep 6, 1994 7:48 PM
>> I have no easy way of compressing or playing 24 bit animations as I do with FLC files. Is there a software package out there that lets me compress a string of 24 bit TGA files? << Try DTA.ZIP in the Graphics Developer's forum (GO GRAPHDEV), section 13-Animation Sources. It can create numerous anim formats including FLH (Hi Color) and FLT (True Color) anims. It's shareware, Dos based, and can so a wide variety of other things such as convert to GIF, color reduction, cropping, re-sizing, compositing, etc. As for hardware setup in getting anims from your PC to tape…you asked the wrong person. I usually produce the stills and the company I do work for compiles them. DTA.ZIP as I mentioned above, will create FLH & FLT anims for you. One thing to note, make sure your Hard Drive does not do "Thermal Self Adjusting". A few drives above 700+ MEG perform this self adjusting periodically. When they do it while you are compiling an animation the anim can get corrupted. This is relayed to me by one of my contractors. -GreG
#718From: Trevor LowSep 9, 1994 2:08 PM
GreG, >> Try DTA.ZIP in the Graphics Developer's forum << Thanks for the tip about DTA. Works great! Trevor.
#961From: Joao AlmeidaSep 27, 1994 7:51 PM
Hi , I saw your reply to Trevor and thought maybe you could help me. Is there a way of outputing a 24-bit animation , compressed with a non-lossy codec , to video ? Maybe playing through memory (DFV) to a quality encoder. Any thoughts on a quality board that captures Betacam (single-frame or compressed movie) ? TIA , Joao
#964From: GreG tsadilasSep 27, 1994 8:42 PM
>> Is there a way of outputing a 24-bit animation , compressed with a non-lossy codec , to video ? Joao, I can't help with hardware, since I'm not current on it. As for software, Dave's Targa Animator (DTA) allows you to create FLT files (similar to FLC but supports 24bit animations), which if I am correct, is not a lossy codec. DTA is shareware, and is available here (older version 2.04), or in the Graphics Developers (GO GRAPHDEV) forum (version 2.1). Hopefully someone else can jump in with hardware suggestions. -GreG
#974From: David HofmannSep 28, 1994 7:35 AM
Joan, the best thing to get animations on tape is either single frame recording or a HS recorder. The best HD recorders are from Abekas (D1 quality), but the prices are also "full quality". <g> A very good and not too expensive solution is the PAR from DPS. It's a card for the PC or the Amiga with it's own HD. It is very very popular because it offers very high quality at a very low price. The PAL PC version is $2500 without HD. And it has YUV (=Betacam, M2) output! -David
#990From: Joao AlmeidaSep 28, 1994 6:22 PM
David , Thanks , but the doesn't the PAR require a dedicated HD ? I also think it's an IDE drive which is nuisance because Fast Wide SCSI-2 has a better transfer rate and higher capacity. There is also the compression problem – in terms of video quality it's not broadcast. For short animations wouldn't it be better to be able to get a few seconds of images to memory and then dump the whole thing into something like a Matrox Illuminator Pro ? One second of non compressed video would take aproximately 26 Mb so 64 Mb should handle more than 2 seconds. For large animations or feature films you do have to resort to some kind of compression. For that I would like non-lossy compression with the ability to edit the individual frames . With a program supporting layers and dynamic filters, special effects should be easy to do (non real-time). For almost real-time there is the promise of the Pinnacle Alladin machine. Both Matrox and TrueVision have announced support , but cost is on the 30K + league. I've read about D/Vision CineWorks which works basically like the PAR , but using Intel SuperRTV for compression instead of M-JPEG or JPEG. It is a non-liner editor and it's cost is about 2,300 USD. It also handles 4 audio channels which the PAR doesn't at present. It only lacks Betacam input and output . Quality is S-VHS from what I've read. Do you happen to know any board that features Betacam INPUT ? If you feed S-VHS or Hi-8 you are losing about 100 + lines of video resolution . Betacam input with quality framegrabbers/compressors should get the PAR/Matrox/Cineworks/T2000 closer to broadcast quality and ease their acceptance in the TV production world. TIA, Joao
#1001From: David HofmannSep 29, 1994 5:45 AM
Joao, correct, the PAR is not high end quality, but for that price it's absolutely stunning. As I suggested, you can have non compressed video with an Abekas. They store in uncompressed, but you will have to pay for that. I have had the Matrox system here for a review in a magazine. I also went to a studio who makes comuter animations. They have a compression ratio of 1:8 and we couldn't see any difference to Betacam single frame recording. Matrox can also record a YUV input. The PAR can do the same with an additional card. I only suggested the PAR because I think it's the best thing you can get for the money right now. (The whole Matrox thing is a lot more). You can have uncompressed video but it'll cost you a lot more. If you know a service bureau that works with Abekas you can get a software that brings your TGA (or whatever) files to Abekas format. Then you put in on a data cartrige and give it to them. They put it on their machine and you can recoder it to whatever format they can offer (Betacam, M2, D1,2,3,5). -David
#1010From: ASDGSep 29, 1994 9:57 PM
Elastic Reality offers drivers which allow Windows systems to directly read and write Abekas backup tapes. Two advantages of this method over using Tar tapes is 1) Abekas backup takes can be random accessed – Tar tapes can't and 2) Elastic Reality's RGB to YUV encoding is much better than the encoding performed by the Abekas hardware. These drivers are also available for Macintosh, SGI and Amiga systems. Jason ERI Technical Support
#1021From: David HofmannSep 30, 1994 7:50 AM
But I would need to have one of these Abekas drives. Or can I put in DAT, too? -David
#1050From: ASDGOct 2, 1994 7:40 PM
To exchange data directly with an Abekas or Accom type digital disk recorder you would need an EXABYTE 8500 or 8505. Consider also that you'd get to use this drive as a 5 or 10 (8500 vs 8505) gigabyte back up device when you weren't writing digital video. Jason ERI Technical Support
#659From: David HofmannSep 7, 1994 12:08 AM
Hi Trevor, Just a few months ago I bought a card from miro called DC1tv that does what you need. It is a hardware M-JPEG compression/decompression board. It is a frame grabber and it can also play animations and output them as video. The resolution is 384×288 so it's as good as VHS. I use it to view my animations at full speed (25/30 fps) and without the 256 color limit of FLI/FLC files. I also use it to make tapes for the customer. So I don't have to do a single frame record each time. It is possible to adjust the compression and data rate so you can adjust the quality of the output. It is not broadcast quality, but very good VHS. I have done all stuff on a regular IDE hard disk with a normal ISA controller. It's a ISA BUS card, so it will work in any ISA, EISA and VLB slot. just ask if you have more questions. -David
#662From: John W. ParkerSep 7, 1994 4:23 AM
Trevor, How much did your compression/decompression board cost? Hate to be nosey, but have wondered what the cost of hardware mpeg is these days. Thanks! John Parker
#687From: David HofmannSep 8, 1994 5:21 AM
Hi John, it's not a MPEG board it's a M-JPEG board. That's a difference. There are real MPEG decompressions boards available for a reasonably price, but compressions boards for MPEG are still very expensive. Ok my card was 1600 DM ($1000) including Adobe Premiere for Windows and some other software. I can really recomment it for everyone how is looking for a way to recoder animations to video and don't need professional quality. But I also recomment it for professionals who only have a single frame recoder and want to show the customers first results quick without waering down the expensive recorder. Those who want to go into the buisness right now and don't have any hardware so far should better get a PAR or another HD recorder. -David
#693From: Trevor LowSep 8, 1994 12:34 PM
David, Thanks for your comments regarding the M-JPEG board, I'm in the dark a little about the different compression techniques, so that's something I plan to start looking into. I decided to go with the Zenon computer. Good value for the buck. Thanks again for you comments, Trevor.