#Add Monkey Business
15 messages in this thread
I have detailed an interesting transaction that occured thru this forum
over the past couple of days, I thought others here might be interested in
the details :
—> I saw this add posted Friday :
Excuse me!!!!!! You speak of honor when you obviously have none yourself!! I
have NOT insulted or flamed you publicly!!!! Nor have I made any part of our
private dealings made general knowledge!!!! So what gives you the right to
insult me in a public forum???? If you have an insult or flame then please do
so in private!!! And if you were so insulted by my behaviour, they WHY IN THE
BLOODY **** DID YOU SEND ME ANOTHER OFFER AFTER POSTING THIS?????? Do you
really think I am going to deal with you??? Not any more, my friend. As for
me selling my property: No transaction had occured; no money changed hands,
and the deal was not finished. For all I know, you could have either returned
the product to me or simply kept it without paying for it…such things have
happened. I reserve the right to sell my belongings to whom I choose for the
sum that I choose. There is nothing illegal or immoral about trying to get the
best deal possible…don't you do the same when you are buying or selling a
product? I also note that I was completely honest and upfront with you in my
dealings. (Which is more than some people could say in this world) I gave you
the opportunity to match/exceed the better offer given…which you did *after*
posting this nonsense. I am greatly offended by your lack of honor and good
judgement.
Richard
PMFJI, but… If you'd accepted this gentleman's offer, (which, from his repost
of your message, you did), then cancelled out because you got a higher offer
from someone else, well…rude is a kind word for it. I have had several deals
with people where I got higher offers, and hoped that the lowball bidder would
back out, but I've never cancelled on someone after telling them I'd accepted
the offer.
You're right, of course…no money had exchanged hands yet, so the deal wasn't
finalized until you'd accepted payment. However, we're talking _spirit_
here–which was violated.
I'm as much a capitalist as anyone else, and I want a good deal as much as
anyone. But, this stinks.
Regards, Phil Combs
Richard,
I agree with Phil that the deal should have gone though with Gary, but…
Gary should have kept this in E-Mail not public.
After all money never changed hands, so this should have been priv.
Tommy
Richard,
You still don't get the point – once you agree to a deal its a
deal. As fas as the claim that I sent you an offer after posting this I
suggest you check the time of the messages – you are in error. Of course
you have the right to sell your property to anyone you choose, I am simply
pointing out that once one makes a deal they are honor bound to complete
that deal, and yes I do try to get the best deal possible when selling
things but once I make a deal I carry thru with my end of the deal. And
you are right, for all you know I could of refused the package when it
arrived, in that case I would of been the dishonourable party in this
deal. I posted my response as a favor to others so they would know what is
going on in this forum, I appreciated it when others have made similar
posts in the past. Sorry that you are offended by others being made aware
of the manner in which you conduct business.
Gary
Gary Cooper ( the live one )
From Albuquerque, New Mexico
Gary
I can understand your point of "the spirit of the deal"…and at one point in
my life I would have agreed with you. However, after losing literally HUNDREDS
of dollars in $$ and product by trying to sell through e-mail; I have learned
to look after myself. I have sent money to people expecting product and never
recieved what I had paid for. I have turned down higher offers in order to
sell to the first bidder; then had the product returned to me and not been able
to sell it at all. I do agree that a gentleman's word should count for
something…however I have been burned too many times in the past. Maybe the
world has made me cynical; but when someome comes and offers straight CASH (and
more than the original deal anyhow) up front…when I haven't recieved anything
from the other party; then I go with the sure deal. I have trusted too many
"gentlemen/ladies" in the past. My anger with you was that the way you publicly
insulted me…in a private matter. In my previous transactions (that I was
"burned" on) I NEVER ONCE "slammed" the other party in public…I simply
ignored all of their subsequent ads. I wish everyone was honorable…but that
simply is not the case these days. Hence I have to look after my own
interests…since noone else will. If your offer was truly honorable…then I
stand in the wrong and apologize for it. But, please appreciate my point of
view: I have never met you before, therefore I have now way of knowing if you
(or anyone else) will keep their word. No insult to honor was intended…I was
simply trying to sell my belongings and make a little $$. Again…it appears
that you were sincere and I offended you. I do apologize for my actions in
that case. But I simply ask two things: First, please try to see it from my
perspective (after having lost approximately $550 in e-mail deals). And
secondly…if you wish to continue this discussion; let us please carry it on
in private.
Sincerely
Richard
Richard,
Gary was right to bring the issue to the public forum. If you have joined the
ranks of the dishonerable, then we have a right to be aware of it so that we
can aviod you too!
Gary Kleiner
Gary,
You are a little harsh it seems. No one lost money, I don't consider
Richard to be dishonerable.
Dishoner to me is stealing that is not happening here.
Tommy
Tommy, What has been stolen is faith in people's integrety.
Richard's logic seems to be "so I picked the guy's pocket, Judge, it's OK
'cause it's happened to me lots of times". Sorry, that doesn't cut it.
Doing the right thing isn't always convienient. When you agree to do something,
there better be a good reason for your backing out of it. Profit is not an
honerable reason.
I don't mean to go on and on, but it seems that the point is just not getting
through.
Regards, Gary
I don't know the facts of the "deal" here (nor do I particularily care).
However, a verbal agreement between two parties is a binding legal contract and
cannot be legally broken without mutual consent. If you want the contract
upheld, see an attorney.
-sja
Actually, Since the deal was struck over C-Serve it is more of a WRITTEN
agreement!
GK
Rich,
What you did waswrong.
If you agree to sell something, you have made a deal. You have "shaken" on it.
You cannot have your cake and eat it too. If someone later makes a better
offer…TOO BAD…it's already sold!
How would you have liked it if after I said I'd sell you the stuff I just did,
then turned around and said "oh, sorry someone else offered me more for it, so
I guess you're just screwed" ?
Grow up and do the honorable thing.
Gary Kleiner
Gary
I understand everybody's feelings on this…but please try to understand. I
have lost a LOT of money this way…and I don't see anyone complaining about
those people who ripped me off!!! I guess I was just raised differently…my
father always told me that "cash on the barrelhead is better than a promise"
and I understand that now; after having been ripped off more than once. I was
only trying to protect my interests. I realize it was not gentlemanly…but
there seems to be bloody few gentlemen left in the business world today and I
am NOT going to be walked on again. As for your comment about what if you did
the same thing to me with the GVP board…it HAS happened to me. And I did not
flame people publicly for it. I simply realized that it was business…and
since the vendor was trying to make a profit he took the highest offer. I did
give the other party a chance to meet the offer…and I informed BOTH parties
as to what was going on…I did not lie to anyone nor did I cheat anyone. I
simply took the best offer. There is no crime in that. Since you run a
business, I thought you would understand…if someone walked into your shop and
said "I'll give you $30 for that product (it being the last of it's kind that
you have) next week" and then someone else comes in and lays $50 in cash in
front of you for the same thing…what are you going to do? It make better
buisiness sense to take the up-front (and higher) offer.
I did PUBLICLY apologize for my actions…I do recognize that it was not
"honorable" and have publicly said so. But please try to understand my
postion…I was conducting business. I did not commit any crime, nor did I lie
to anyone.
As for your comment "Grow up and do the honorable thing" well..I HAVE grown
up. That is why I don't let people walk on me anymore. I used to trust people
at their word…and have lost hundreds of dollars for my trouble. In response
to that comment…why don't YOU grow up and complain to the people who rip
others off? Then people like me wouldn't have to protect themselves because we
would all trust each other. As I said: I did not lie, I did not steal and I
told both parties what was happening. Gentlemanly: perhaps not. But I did sell
my product.
I must say though…I appreciate the courtesy of a private e-mail message. I
have never offended (at least not deliberately) anyone publicly on the board.
At any rate…the products have been sold and the issue is closed for me. I
again apologize for the furor this has caused…and for not being totally
gentlemanly in my buisiness dealings. I hope we can all get on with our lives
now, as I am sure we all have better things to do than waste our e-mail
allowances on something like this. Again: PUBLIC APOLGY from me to the
offended parties.
I must also admit that from the number of responses (both public and private)
this has generated that it appears there are many more honorable gentlemen here
on this service than elsewhere. And I acted out of line, and will conduct
myself accordingly. Again: I apologize publicly for my action, and have
learned from my error.
Sincerely,
Richard Williams
Course laid in sir: AUTOPILOT engaged. Ahead warp one.
I now accept your apology. It is really Gary Cooper that you have to convince
though.
GK
Pardon me again, but I have a question– If you've had such a bad time in
transacting business through E-mail, and have lost "literally hundreds" of
dollars by trying, why do you still do it? That is, unless you're a relative
of Trump or a sadomasochist 😉 Regards, Phil Combs