CompuServe Thread

Ferrierite hunt in CA

18 messages in this thread
#152693From: Doug MitchellNov 6, 1994 10:11 PM
Hi, folks– While I was visiting Calif. recently, I managed to visit the Kanan Rd. area noted for ferrierite among other minerals, in the company of Rod Burroughs, who led me to a new ferrierite site near the old one. This is the area of the type(?) locality for rare ferrierite and dachiardite – if I seem to ignore the latter it is because it is harder to distinguish and not fluorescent, while ferrierite is an uncommon fluorescent among the zeolites. Westbound on the Ventura freeway, we simply went south from the Kanan Rd. exit (it leads toward Point Dume near Malibu), 1.7 miles from the freeway. Parking on a right (west) side turnout just before topping a rise in the road, we saw two people collecting off the east side of the road, where a small basalt quarry was evident on the slope of the rise. One was Bob Housley (did I get that right, Rod?), who had told Rod about the place; on hearing I was after ferrierite he showed me to one small outcrop shortly north of the quarry, and to the road cut atop the rise, as places where ferrierite is found. He pointed out to me one cavity in the road cut that had ferrierite – I mined it out as best I could, and that was the only ferrierite I know I found. At this place, its fluorescence seems present but minor compared to the nearby locality. While that was the only ferrierite I managed to collect, I did come up with a number of pieces of calcite, chalcedony, and whatever that were fluorescent. The road cut was solid walls of what I took to be basalt; the Encyclopedia of Minerals says the ferrierite is found in this area (Agoura hills) in "andesitic breccia". As I wandered along the road cut walls, pounding lots of basalt loose, I found myself wishing for the hammer of Thor – as it was, I had only a standard-size rockpick Rod had lent me, with a pair of chisels. I found a number of calcite (aragonite?) bodies and veins, and seams of chalcedony (opal?). These proved interesting after darkness fell, soon after we arrived. Unlike the site further south where calcite seams fluoresce a pretty pink with yellow-white layers, here, the most massive calcite fluoresced bluish-white, phosphorescing similarly, LW and SW, while the thin layers were more white, orange, and pink, with an overall orange-white look. There were also seams of colorless translucent chalcedony (opal?) that fluoresced a pretty blue with a hint of green SW and white LW, with a greenish-blue phosphorescence (somewhat odd fluorescent behavior for chalcedony, more likely from opal, though it looks more like chalcedony to me otherwise). If the fluorescence was calcite behind/within the translucent chalcedony/opal, I cannot catch the culprit in the act, as none of it seems to come to the surface for an acid test. I am inclined to think it is the chalcedony/opal. A great deal of pounding, with a certain amount of minor skin-breaking of my left hand (I forgot to pack the work gloves I had set aside) by misses, broke lose one particularly nice specimen where a half-inch chalcedony/opal vein is bracketed by thin seams of calcite/aragonite, with a nice complementing of fluorescent colors. I later found it has one small cavity in the calcite with some flat white plates reminiscent of cleavelandite (albite), but which bend in irregular curves. This is small, and needs the microscope I do not have, to reveal all that may lurk within. We then tried for the older ferrierite site, 1.1 miles south of the freeway, a boulder-strewn field, but could not locate it as it was dark, and new construction in the area had confused the landmarks (if not covered over the site). A GPS unit and coordinates for the site would have been very helpful. Those Agoura hills are a treasure trove for a fluorescent mineral collector. –Doug
#152776From: Nathan A. SchachtmanNov 7, 1994 8:17 PM
Doug, I was delighted to hear of your ferrierite adventures for several reasons. First, and most important, your report was direct evidence that Rod is well and out in the field, collecting. Second, I was interested to hear about additional ferrierite localities in the area. I have at least one good micromounted ferrierite specimen from the area; its fluorescence is remarkable. Mine came from the field of boulders that you missed on account of darkness. The boulders are of the same andesite breccia. BTW, andesite is an extrusive igneous rock, like basalt; unlike basalt, the anorthite content of andesite is <50%. The rock is brecciated and the cracks are cemented with all that wonderful stuff you discussed–calcite, calcedony, opal, quartz, zeolites,etc. Some of the calcite I found had small doubly terminated quartz crystals perched on the edge of the rhombs. Other quartz crystals were water clear, but all twisted. I haven't studied the Kanan Rd stuff for a while, but you have rekindled my interest in that locality. Rod was responsible for first piquing that interest with his note in the UV Waves. I have been out of touch for a while. My mother recently died after a long illness, and I have been scrambling to put things in order. I owe everyone here V2.0 of the collecting release. I also would like to write up a locality report for Lanny on the fluorescent chabazite locality I collected in the Bancroft area last year. Nathan
#153046From: Doug MitchellNov 9, 1994 10:57 PM
Hi, Nathan– You have cleared up my misconception about what brecciation is – I had thought of it as rock being broken up, jumbled, and then the pile of pieces cemented back together – it seems the rock is also allowed to crack and be cemented without being moved much out of its original position, or at least that is what seems to have happened in this case. All the mineralized seams were thin compared to the andesite units. I got a hasty look at my one ferrierite-bearing crust with Rod's microscope – it was quite a wonderland of crystals. I'll leave it to Rod to compare the ferrierite with that from the original locality in matters other than fluorescence. I am sorry to hear about the reason for your absence. I hope you are bearing up well. –Doug
#153105From: Nathan A. SchachtmanNov 10, 1994 6:44 PM
Doug, I too was at first puzzled about how nonmetamorphic igneous rock could be brecciated because I was fixed on my understanding of "breccia." One of the things that is nice in hunting the elusive ferrierite in Agoura Hills, amidst the brecciated andesite, is that the andesite falls apart so accomodatingly. It really is easy rock hunting compared with searching for zeolites in unaltered basalt from the New Jersey Watchung Mountains. On the other hand, you need time to sort through the big boulders. Good sunlight, at the right angle, helps to find the more interesting material, which is usually micromount size. So, you examined your material under Rod's scope? I take it that you have not yet made the leap into the world of micros. I hope that Rod took you to task for this omission!! My son's involvement in his school's Audio-Visual club has piqued my interest in graphic images. Now I am hankering for a trinocular microscope head so that I can photograph my micromounts and display the photos graphically on CD-ROM, etc. Thank you for your thoughts about my mother. The last few weeks of her life were difficult. I am greatly relieved that her suffering is over. Nathan
#153116From: Guy HammerNov 10, 1994 8:12 PM
Hi, Nathon > I am greatly relieved that her suffering is over. I, too offer my condolences. My mother passed on last month in her sleep. Fortunately she didn't suffer much in her last few weeks. My Sister-in-law was there in the same city and handled most of the arrangements. I did what I could but with a 4 hour round trip, and a full time job to maintain, I couldn't be there as much as I should have been. > Now I am hankering for a trinocular microscope head so that I can photograph > my micromounts and display the photos graphically on CD-ROM, etc. Yeah, that would do just fine for me too! But, it's that or a winch kit for the 4X4. Decisions, decisions…
#153516From: Doug MitchellNov 13, 1994 6:06 PM
Hi, Guy– Go for the winch – a microscope cannot get you out of trouble in the field. For me it is easier – no 4×4, thus a winch is not a realistic option, though maybe I should be saving for when I do get a 4×4. I am sorry to hear about your mother. I dread the day anything happens to my parents while I am on assignment so far away. –Doug
#153251From: Doug MitchellNov 11, 1994 9:37 PM
Hi, Nathan– Maybe the loose boulders are weathered enough that the andesite falls apart so "accomodatingly", but I hope you were not talking about the solid rock of the roadcut I was beating on. I would not want to meet anything less accomodating… There were more weathered sections where I could knock off a stone or two with every hammer blow, but the place where I found the seam of calcite/aragonite and chalcedony/opal was quite refractory, and I spent a long time on the ferrierite pocket as well. It would have been somewhat better with a 3-pound hammer, but I remember almost as much work getting out some calcite further down the Kanan Road on an earlier occasion with that larger hammer. Why settle for a trinocular microscope? With four, you could take stereo picture pairs while watching the specimen. Get a laptop PC with two high-res video ports, a pair of displays that allow the screen to be projected by an overhead, set up a visual baffle between the projection destinations… Why is my Christmas list always so hard to lift? –Doug
#153429From: Nathan A. SchachtmanNov 13, 1994 9:02 AM
Doug, I was indeed writing about the boulders in the field off Kanan Road. That rock is thoroughly weathered, so much so that you have to work your way into the interior of the rock to find the nicer specimens. I did work in the roadcuts a bit with my 3 pounder (baby bubba). It's hard, all right, but also I didn't find much in the roadcuts during my outing. BTW, I forgot whether I mentioned it before, but Kamloops, British Columbia is the type locality for ferrierite. I don't believe the zeolite from that locality fluoresces. The dacciardite from Kanan Dune Rd should not be overlooked either. It comes in nice micro specimens, and it's a pretty rare zeolite. What is surprising, to me at least, is that I did not have much luck in finding the common zeolites from the boulder field or the roadcuts. All right, if we really want to design a scope to long for–it should have two binocular viewers so that two people could view at the same time, and a monocular or binocular for film or electronic image collecting, which could be saved in a high-resolution format to disk, or perhaps better, directly to an optical, multi-sessioned disk. The set up would require a high-resolution monitor, as well. Or maybe a Scanning Electron Microscope with EDXA and X-Ray fluorescence capability would be nice. I wonder why I always wind up with ties and bottles of scotch for Christmas? Nathan
#153515From: Doug MitchellNov 13, 1994 6:06 PM
Hi, Nathan– I was paying attention only to the ferrierite in my quick look thru Rod's microscope. The ferrierite sprays were outnumbered by other crystals that were markedly clear and colorless; my fuzzy memory has them as square prisms, maybe like apophyllite. Might these be the dachiardite? Don't forget to insist that the Scanning Electron Microscope be stereo. Now if we could just get them to make a technicolor version … 🙂 –Doug
#154054From: Lanny R. ReamNov 16, 1994 11:04 PM
Nathan, I just checked my ferrierite from Kamloops Lake, BC and it does not fluoresce, in fact it looks really dark (gee, black fluroescence!!) against possibly slightly white fluorescent quartz/chalcedony matrix. Also, my specimen from Monte Lake, BC is non-fluorescent (although it may have a very minor pinkish glow in SW (not sure it isn't a reflection off the pinkish mineral, although under long wave the bluish reflection is obvious). Also, I was talking with Bill Rader a few days ago (he wrote a couple articles on the Santa Monica Mtns barite and zeolites for Mineral News (Oct. 1993 & March 1994), I believe he stated that there presently is road construction along the road(S) where zeolites occur, and for some reason, ferrierite is stuck in those same thoughts. Lanny
#154652From: Doug MitchellNov 20, 1994 1:13 PM
Hi, Lanny– Construction is a chronic problem (and opportunity) for the rockhound in the Santa Monica mountains area – you have to be adaptable as sites appear and disappear rapidly. –Doug
#154721From: Lanny R. ReamNov 20, 1994 9:51 PM
Doug, Actually, my thought were more along the line of an advantage from construction: fresh broken rock and fresh outcrops. Lanny
#155445From: Doug MitchellNov 25, 1994 7:48 AM
Hi, Lanny– If we could just get the builders to leave alone special sites like the boulder field with ferrierite, burying only rock that had been picked over, while digging up lots of new rock … My Christmas list was never known for its modesty or practicality. 🙂 If one has time to cruise around and find what is freshly dug up, the building activity can indeed be a boon. But when I have little time in the area, or wish to take kids along to a "sure thing" to introduce them to the hobby, it can be a bit aggravating. –Doug
#155732From: Lanny R. ReamNov 27, 1994 12:05 AM
Doug, Yeah, it is annoying to hear about a short term locality after it is all gone, or to drive a highway yourself and discover the road construction came and went in between the last trip and the current one. Guy is out near many zeolite areas. The ones in the mountains to his west and southwest and northeast could be fruitful if one had a motorcycle to use to check out hundreds of miles of ever expanding logging roads and their related quarries. That isn't stated correctly, the motorcycle would be comparatively easy to get, the time is much more difficult. Lanny
#155099From: Lanny R. ReamNov 23, 1994 12:24 AM
Doug, So, one has to move fast and travel by motorcycle constantly checking road cuts and construction sites. Wish there was something in the road cuts around here. I need to move to Guy's area so I can go out this time of year and collect zeolites!! Lanny
#155494From: Doug MitchellNov 25, 1994 4:40 PM
Hi, Lanny– Bearing in mind Guy's comments about collecting this time of year in OR, maybe what you need is a winter home in the southwest. In Calif., I did less collecting during the summer, because the deserts got too hot. There, motorcycle fans can cruise the building areas such as the Santa Monica Mts. for the transient opportunities, or slower types can seek relatively fixed sites in the deserts (except where the desert is a building area). –Doug
#152795From: William W. BesseNov 7, 1994 11:01 PM
Doug– Yes, you got it right. His name is Bob Housley, another MSSC member. He really likes the Santa Monica Moutains (not Agoura Hills). He wrote and article on the ferrierite from there, if you want I will forward it. If you are interested in other localities, another MSSC member wrote a series of articles for the MSSC Bulletin on Zeolites and Silicates of the Santa Monica Mountains. He is Bill Rader and is most likely going to be the next Bulletin Editor. Good reading for localities. –Bill
#153047From: Doug MitchellNov 9, 1994 10:57 PM
Hi, Bill– Are you telling me I was in the Santa Monica Mountains? I saw Agoura Hills mentioned in a reference on ferrierite, and knowing I was near Agoura, assumed that was the name of the region I was in, which may have been hasty. I am interested in other localities, but for the sake of fluorescent minerals more than zeolites. I hope to be moving back to southern Calif. before long, and will doubtless be interested to hear about any sites that will not be built over by then. –Doug